Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
Definitely it has two parts. One is that the Canadian government is doing very thorough security and background checks, and we fully assist in that. Additionally, in the civic or private resettlement program, we have additional community information that helps us to deselect those who are dangerous or red-flagged. We have a lengthy process for screening cases. Because we are talking about, let's say, 400, it's a small number compared to the refugee numbers, so it's easy to select the non-problematic cases. We don't want to cause delays.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Mark, I have to make a comment. My colleagues here are berating you for perhaps being somewhat laggard, which I know you're not, in fundraising private funds to support refugees, when the government can't cost out its own government-sponsored refugee program. I find that a little rich. I also find it rich given that you're supporting an organization that is trying to put in place in situ support for refugees so that they can best integrate, while we haven't even seen long-term plans for language training. I find it.... I'm sorry; I just wanted to say that.
In previous years, we've seen Canada process over 23,000—I think that's the number—Iraqi refugees. I don't want to get into a numbers game here, since we're here to talk about how we support the most vulnerable, but I want to know if any of the cases you started that have been processed in the last year were submitted as part of that 23,000 cap. Were the numbers that have been counted actually submitted under that?
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Thornhill, CPC
Thank you.
Thank you, Senator Martin, Mr. Mark, and Professor Macklin, for your testimony here today.
I'm sure that every member of the committee wishes you well, Mr. Mark, on your mission next week, and looks forward to the answers and the information you bring back.
The government has made it very clear recently, and again today, that it does not track resettled refugees by either religious or ethnic composition. Does the Archdiocese of Toronto or do any of your fellow private sponsors have that sort of information, those numbers?
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
Thank you very much.
Basically, what we do in each and every case is investigate the reason for persecution. I think the best example is the Eritrean community. We resettled a lot of Eritreans. As we know, the Eritrean community in Eritrea is about 50% Muslim, 50% Christian. However, their persecution is not based on religion, so we don't have information on that. However, when you go to a community that is persecuted because of their religion, yes, we register that in the file. We don't summarize the statistics, because we don't have a goal to have this or that percentage.
Another example is Darfur. Usually you forget about the genocide in Darfur, Sudan. Again, 50% of the people are Christian and 50% are Muslim. We don't know who is Muslim or who is Christian. They are persecuted; we help.
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
I think it would be a huge hypocrisy, when someone is persecuted because he's Chaldean or Syriac, that we would deny that fact. It's similar to saying we would not mention the gender of an abused woman. I mean, we are professionals. We don't care about political correctness or political interests. We care about the fact that I need to investigate the reason for persecution. In the Middle East, as I tried to mention, the focus is definitely religious persecution. The victims should be identified based on the persecution.
4:55 p.m.
Thornhill, CPC
Can you offer a ballpark set of figures in terms of the archdiocese's work over the past five years, for example, with the Iraqi and more recently Syrian refugees?
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
Definitely. Of the cases resettled by the Archdiocese of Toronto, based on my personal experience—because each and every case goes through my hands—the majority are persecuted Christians or other religious minorities: Mandaeans, Sabians, some Yazidis, and others. I estimate that maybe altogether we might have about 80% who are minorities, but don't forget we also sponsor Ahmadiyya Muslims, who are also a minority. For us it's our work. It's about the lives of the people. If you are labelled an Ahmadiyya and therefore you are persecuted, we are there to help.
4:55 p.m.
Thornhill, CPC
I wonder if I could bounce off you a complaint that I've received through the Armenian community, who said that in three cases they've documented, applicants for refugee status at the Beirut mission were refused on the grounds that the applicants didn't meet the criteria of a “well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race [or] religion”. In fact, these individuals escaped Aleppo, where they were persecuted. They were driven from their homes and their cathedral was deliberately targeted.
I'm wondering whether you have heard from your refugee applicants similar stories about the denial of Christian risk in Lebanon.
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
Definitely. We have repeatedly heard of this problem.
I visited the visa office in Lebanon. They do an excellent job; however, they don't have the liberty to do prima facie recognition. If the government would introduce that, it would speed up the process. It would simplify it, and resources would be minimized. Second, if these Armenians return to Aleppo, it would be, “Aha. You are an IDP. You are not a refugee. You are not qualified.”
If the decision came to open up the source country stream or to allow IDPs to be eligible to enrol in the program, the problem would be solved.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Mark, first of all I want to applaud you for your high-mindedness and your concern about various groups in Iraq. However, that having been said, I share some of the concerns that have been expressed by other colleagues here today.
Have you visited Iraq before in the past?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
So you're not an expert in the topography, the terrain, the language...?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Yet you still insist on actually visiting Iraq and you insist on going to landlocked areas, which are places even the UNHCR is not venturing into. Is that correct?
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
That's right, yes.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Could you imagine any security concerns from the Canadian government if you were to do so?
4:55 p.m.
Director, Office for Refugees of the Archdiocese of Toronto
Oh, definitely. In the refugee field, we work in a team because everybody has a special responsibility. If we are interested in security, languages, or budget, we have different people. That is how we do it as a team.
In the last 10 years, our office has had an impeccable record of going to different countries, maybe for the first time in our lives, to do fact-finding first, and then to establish what the reality is of working there.
