Evidence of meeting #27 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vulnerable.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Aneki Nissan  President, Centre for Canadian-Assyrian Relations
David Marshall  Team Leader, Assessment Mission to South Sudan, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights
John Clayton  Director of Programs and Projects, Samaritan's Purse Canada
Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen  General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq
David Manicom  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Heather Jeffrey  Director General, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

12:50 p.m.

General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq

Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen

I have not asked yet. The example that I gave happened in, I believe, Turkey, with one of the families who had fled there. Now that I know about it, and I only found out about it today, it is a question that I want to start asking my UNHCR colleagues here on the ground.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

We understood today that the Yazidis are in segregated camps. My second question is, do you know whether they are still facing violence and threats while they're in the camps? Or are they safer while they're in their segregated camps?

12:50 p.m.

General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq

Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen

In the segregated camps there is a degree of safety. The people who are in charge of the camps that I work with are Yazidis themselves, so there is a degree of safety that is guaranteed to them in the camps. Because of the rumour that they've heard in Greece and Turkey, there is that huge hesitation on their part even though there are deplorable conditions in the camp, to even pursue leaving because of what they've heard back from other people.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Do you have any numbers of how many Yazidis would still be in an ISIL or Daesh-controlled area in Iraq?

12:50 p.m.

General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq

Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen

I know that in captivity there are still over 3,000. Most of the Yazidi population fled into northern Iraq, so there are very few left in Daesh-controlled Iraq.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

There would be a few who are internally displaced. The rest might still be in Iraq, but in a separate or a safer area relative to being under ISIL.

Am I correct?

12:50 p.m.

General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

My next question would be to Mr. Clayton.

I know you said you're not a sponsorship agreement holder, but you deal with refugees. Sponsorship agreement holders are allowed to identify who they would like to sponsor, and not just the priority of the UNHCR, but they are able to make their own priorities for refugees to be resettled in Canada.

What is your opinion on the balance of private versus government-assisted refugees received by Canada each year? Do you find that balance fair currently, or do you think it should be tilted in one way or the other?

12:50 p.m.

Director of Programs and Projects, Samaritan's Purse Canada

John Clayton

I find that question right outside of my realm of expertise. I'm more aware of issues that are outside our country than ones inside.

In terms of the family whose arrival in Canada we participated in, I can see the benefit of that in terms of the assimilation or the adjustment to life in Canada. If I were a refugee, that's how I would like to be brought into this country.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Mr. Nissan, what are your thoughts on privately sponsored refugees versus government-sponsored refugees and the ability that privately sponsored can pick and choose groups they wish to sponsor?

12:50 p.m.

President, Centre for Canadian-Assyrian Relations

Aneki Nissan

I'm going to echo Mr. Clayton. I'm not well versed on that. Whether the government is doing enough or not enough, I can't speak to that.

I just know that with regard to privately sponsored refugees, through the despair, people are sacrificing everything they can to make sure they do what they can and put up the money they can to bring people over. Many of them don't have the means and are scratching and penny-pinching to raise the funds to help bring these people over.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Mr. Marshall, if I have a bit of time, in order to be eligible for resettlement to Canada, a person must meet the UN convention on the definition of a refugee, or be outside of their country and “seriously and personally affected by civil war, armed conflict, or massive violations of human rights”.

Do you think the definition for qualifying for Canada's protection should be changed and, if so, how?

12:55 p.m.

Team Leader, Assessment Mission to South Sudan, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights

David Marshall

Again, I'm afraid it's outside my area of expertise.

I was asked to come here specifically to speak about the human rights situation in South Sudan, so I don't feel comfortable speaking to those issues that are within the jurisdiction of another UN agency, which is the UNHCR.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

You're dealing with the IDPs in Sudan, and currently Canada doesn't have a proper mechanism to help those people, other than perhaps applications on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

From your work or your knowledge, do you think it's better to revise those provisions for Canada, or do you think the existing framework is satisfactory to assist them? Or alternatively, do you think that aid is the main answer that is needed for those people in the areas you've seen?

12:55 p.m.

Team Leader, Assessment Mission to South Sudan, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights

David Marshall

Again, it sounds like a UN bureaucratic response, but I just don't feel comfortable speaking to an issue that I don't have expertise in.

I do have some suggestions, which we will go into in camera, that may answer some of those questions.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC

Okay, fair enough.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you.

We will now suspend for a minute to allow the committee hearing to go in camera.

I'd like to inform some of the visitors to the committee that while in camera, it's just the committee members, the witnesses who are testifying, and the support staff who are allowed in the room, so I'll allow a minute for the rest of the viewing public to leave the committee room.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Welcome back.

Appearing before us once again are department officials from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Mr. David Manicom and Mr. Bruce Grundison. Welcome back.

From Global Affairs Canada, we have Ms. Heather Jeffrey.

We'll begin with Mr. David Manicom and Mr. Bruce Grundison. I believe you will be splitting your seven minutes.

1:15 p.m.

David Manicom Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to all the committee members.

I would like first of all to make a clarification to a response made by Mr. Bob Orr at a previous session. A member asked if the department had ever been directed to track if refugees were members of religious, ethnic, or sexual minority groups. The response provided was negative. As well, the department does track the nationality of refugees, but it has never systematically tracked the religion or ethnicity of refugees.

In a break with standard practice, starting in early 2015, the department was instructed to track if resettled Syrian refugees were members of vulnerable ethnic or religious minorities, or members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual, or intersex community as part of identified areas of focus. This work had to be done on a manual basis using case notes made by officers, as our systems do not track and cannot extract this information. This practice ended in fall 2015 upon the beginning of the major Syrian refugee initiative.

In May 2015 IRCC officials were also instructed to begin tracking the religious and ethnic affiliation of all refugees resettled to Canada. Officials had begun exploring the manner in which such a tracking system could be implemented, but this was never put in practice.

I will continue with my opening remarks.

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee as it conducts its important study. My name is David Manicom. I'm the associate assistant deputy minister for strategic and program policy at IRCC. I am here today with Bruce Grundison who is a senior director in IRCC's international region.

I will take a few minutes to offer some opening remarks, after which Bruce and I will be pleased to respond to any of your questions.

Mr. Chair, as my colleague Robert Orr mentioned in his appearance before this committee earlier this week, Canada has a strong and long-standing humanitarian tradition of resettling vulnerable people from around the world who have been persecuted and displaced and who seek our country's protection.

Maintaining that humanitarian tradition and ensuring that Canada continues to provide protection to those in need around the world is one of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada's central mandates.

So we take very seriously the challenge of helping vulnerable and displaced people around the world, and we are highly motivated to address this challenge with policies and programs that are both compassionate and effective.

Mr. Chair, over the past two days, you and your fellow committee members have heard many hours of testimony from a number of individuals invited to address you.

On behalf of IRCC, I'd like to take a few minutes to build on some of the things you have heard from others in this room.

Mr. Chair, a number of witnesses have discussed the possibility of broadening the definition of a refugee to include vulnerable populations, such as IDPs. It's important to remember that there are risks inherent in reopening the 1951 UN refugee convention, as some countries would like to make it more restrictive and to reduce state obligations to refugees. Canada supports the current definition, as it offers a robust roadmap for protection and for solutions.

At the same time we continue to engage with our partners in the international arena by aiming to use our country's position as a leader in refugee resettlement to further international discussions on best practices in protection. An important example of this is our participation and leadership in the upcoming international summits in September regarding refugees and migrants.

We are appreciative of this committee's work and continue to welcome proposals and input from committee members, from witnesses, and from other Canadians on how we can further improve our system. Like any well-run institution, our immigration system works best when it is flexible and can adapt to ever-changing realities and emerging challenges.

As you have heard, the source country class was repealed in 2011 due to challenges that made it ineffective and were affecting the department's other humanitarian programs. The department has maintained the flexibility to respond to specific and unique circumstances, and at present it does so through the ability to grant permanent residence based on humanitarian and compassionate considerations or public policy considerations.

I will give you an example of a public policy consideration.

From 2012 to 2014, in response to a request from the United Nations Refugee Agency following the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, Canada admitted 40 Haitian women and their dependents. These were single women who had been displaced, who had been subject to sexual violence, and who lacked other protections.

Humanitarian public policies are a tool the minister has under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to facilitate immigration for humanitarian reasons. They're typically used to respond to exceptional, specific, temporary circumstances. To that end, IRCC conducts monitoring of specific vulnerable groups who may be in particular need. The situation of the Yazidis who face grave violations of their human rights and terrible affronts to their dignity is one such group, and we continue to monitor developments in northern Iraq.

Canada's urgent protection program was also discussed this week as a program to ensure that Canada can respond to urgent requests for resettlement of those under threat of being returned home, under threat of expulsion, or facing direct threats to their lives. Canada accepts about 100 cases a year under the urgent protection program. Each of these cases is referred directly to Canadian visa offices by the United Nations refugee agency and processed with urgent timelines to ensure the refugees' arrivals in Canada in the most expeditious manner.

Mr. Chair, a central debate that has emerged over the last three days of committee meetings is whether our system, in its current form, is allowing us to reach and to assist the most vulnerable.

The committee has heard from witnesses able to speak first-hand, or provide secondary accounts, of the plight of certain particularly vulnerable groups.

At the same time, we must not forget about those vulnerable individuals who are not able to appear before us to advocate for their own protection or who do not have allies here to advocate for them either.

With that in mind, I will reiterate that the Government of Canada stands by its close collaboration with partners in identifying individuals in need of resettlement. Along with private sponsors who are an integral part of our system, Canada confidently relies on the United Nations refugee agency as the international expert best placed to identify protection and, where appropriate, resettlement need.

As you heard from the witness from the United Nations agency, the agency uses objective criteria established through consultation between all resettlement countries to make assessments of resettlement need. Referrals for resettlement are just one of a large set of protection activities the UN agency performs on the ground. Through this broader protection work conducted alongside local partners, globally the agency has gained the expertise necessary to make determinations of vulnerability. By working with the United Nations in this way and contributing to resettlement efforts for priority populations as identified by the international community, Canada is able to maximize our contribution to global efforts to assist vulnerable individuals.

Once again, Mr. Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this committee, and my colleague and I will gladly answer any of your questions.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Mr. Manicom

Ms. Jeffrey, you have seven minutes.

1:20 p.m.

Heather Jeffrey Director General, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you, Mr. Chair, honourable members.

My name is Heather Jeffrey and I'm the director general for international humanitarian assistance at Global Affairs Canada.

I am pleased to return today to respond to any further questions about Canadian humanitarian assistance to support vulnerable groups in inaccessible regions.

To briefly recap my previous remarks, all persons who are affected by a humanitarian crisis and have identified needs are eligible to receive humanitarian assistance irrespective of their status, including internally displaced persons and refugees. We channel our humanitarian assistance as a matter of policy, not through governments, but through trusted humanitarian partners, including the UN, the Red Cross and Red Crescent family, and non-governmental organizations.

Humanitarian actors aim to save lives, alleviate suffering, and maintain the dignity of crisis-affected populations. They give priority to the most urgent cases of distress and, therefore, do not make distinctions on the basis of nationality, race, gender, religious belief, class, or political views.

Access has been rightly identified by many before this committee over the past days as the most critical variable that affects the ability of humanitarian actors to provide support to vulnerable populations, particularly in conflict situations. It's also the most challenging to resolve. By operating in accordance with the humanitarian principles, our partner organizations are able to engage in dialogue with all parties to gain greater acceptance for their activities and thereby improve their ability to reach otherwise inaccessible populations. To that end, Canada has been and will continue to be a very strong advocate for the humanitarian principles.

However, we also recognize that access challenges clearly remain. Therefore, we're continuing to engage diplomatically through a variety of channels to try and address all the ongoing situations of concern and to insist publicly that all parties to conflict respect their obligations under international humanitarian law.

We also continue to direct our humanitarian responses through a diverse network of humanitarian partners in order to try and maximize the scope of the assistance that's being provided in a region.

Thank you for your consideration. I would be pleased to respond to any questions you might have.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Mr. Fragiskatos, seven minutes, please.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Manicom, I want to go back to your earlier statement at the outset. You said that under the previous government—if I understand your testimony—tracking actually happened; tracking on the basis of identity happened, and this was the case for all refugees. Who ordered this, who asked for this, and why was that the case?

1:25 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Per my testimony it was not the practice for all refugees. This tracking was put in place for the resettlement of Syrian refugees only for a period beginning in January, February 2015, and that was the policy of the government at that time.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Okay. Are you saying it was just for Syrian refugees?