Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 3rd, 2017

[Maria Esel Panlaqui]

In my case, it was so surprising, about two years ago, when she and others first came. They came from different parts of the world, but I was so surprised to find out that they were referring to the same person. I attended a provincial consultation on human trafficking and met with some RCMP members to ask for some advice on what I could do, because—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Twenty seconds, please.

[Maria Esel Panlaqui]

—the way they're describing it, she's untouchable and she has connections.

Also, I don't have the expertise to deal with this type of case. As settlement workers, we're supposed to refer and provide information, not deal with these cases. I have been advised that as long as you have evidence, you can file a case. When I asked them, I was so surprised when they all told me that before they got to the airport, they'd been asked to delete all the evidence, because otherwise they would be deported.

They were all scared. They would come to meet me and they would be ready, and then when I was about to go to the police or to the FCJ Refugee Centre, they wouldn't show up.

Michelle is here because she just completed her 24 months. She was one of the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Saroya, you have seven minutes, please.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Michelle, Maria, and Leslie for coming. It's a pretty difficult situation. It's heartbreaking.

We keep hearing this story. I've been hearing it for the last 30-some years. These crooked consultants, whatever you want to call them, always find some victims just like you and many others.

My first call today was from somebody who called from some other country with a similar situation. They took big bucks and would not answer the phone. A couple of weeks back I got a call from the west.

What is the solution? What do you think can be done? Do you have any ideas? We are looking for solutions here. They should be all blacklisted. Should there be some sort of registry where people can call in?

The two people who called me in the last two weeks will not file a complaint. I gave them the number. I gave them every single thing. I made it clear. I said, “We will protect you. Whatever we can do.” They are not doing it. What is the solution?

Maybe we can start with you, Leslie. What do you think?

[Leslie Emory]

I think absolutely that a foolproof list that can be relied upon and that is evaluated against a set of criteria and modified over time....

Even in our agency, settlement workers have gotten to the point where they are far more comfortable referring to legal supports rather than going through the process of assessing, number one, the legitimacy, and number two, the moral practices, even if the immigration consultant happens to be registered.

It's very difficult. If there were some kind of a vetting, monitoring, and managing process for those registered consultants, so that we could believe without a shadow of a doubt that these folks are reliable....

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Do you mean some sort of a 1-888 phone line where they could leave a message without identifying themselves? Would that sort of stuff work?

[Leslie Emory]

That's an idea.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Is there anything else, Maria?

[Maria Esel Panlaqui]

Even the registered consultants are very smart. They know how to get away with it.

For example, some of our clients went to a registered consultant who says that all their emails from IRCC are going to her spam. She won't tell them whether they need to submit some more documents. We found out, when I started going to the church, that a lot of the applications are now closed.

This consultant says, “I'm sorry. I didn't intend to neglect your application. It went to my spam. I did not see it. We need to send an explanation letter to IRCC, but you need to pay me another $300 to do that.”

Then, when the cases start to become complicated, our clients are referred to lawyers, and they need to pay money again.

I think it's the condition of these people's status. If you really want to address the problem, make them permanent residents when they come here. It's the condition of their status that even if they don't like to go with these people, because they are not even sure whether they are legitimate or not, they are forced to do so because of that precariousness.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Do you just work in the Thorncliffe area?

[Maria Esel Panlaqui]

No, I started in Thorncliffe. We have a secret online Facebook group. We thought we were already connected with a lot of them, but when they started going to the churches, I saw more workers there who were isolated and vulnerable, so we started assisting those people and referring them to settlement agencies in the particular neighbourhoods where they are located.

With the phone services, I was able to rescue a caregiver in Hay River over the phone—

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Rescue?

[Maria Esel Panlaqui]

—because there are no settlement services there.

I asked her if she could wait until the next day and she said, “No, because the employer is throwing things at me. I cannot wait.” We had no choice but to ask someone to take her from Hay River to a shelter there. The settlement agency that is closest to that worker is a four-hour drive from where she works. She was isolated inside the private home.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I would like to make a request of all of you if you have any solid suggestions. I have two people working full-time on this issue alone. What the three of you are saying I hear; we hear it, all of us hear it around the clock.

If you have any suggestions, any ideas, could you submit them to the clerk, please?

[Leslie Emory]

I think the biggest piece is the oversight body. If we understand that these individuals are vulnerable and they don't understand our system for a whole bunch of identified reasons, a mechanism by which they're protected needs to be embedded in the system. That doesn't exist right now. They can't decide if an immigration consultant is legitimate or not, so there has to be an oversight body that ensures those kinds of things.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

But the biggest thing I see is if somebody gets blacklisted, sometimes they come under a different name.

[Leslie Emory]

That's fair enough.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You have to cover the person and Ontario and whatever agency he is using....

Leslie, you also said that ICCRC is inadequate or does not answer when claims are submitted. Can you explain it a bit more?

[Leslie Emory]

That's the piece I've been asked to offer some specific examples on, and I'm going to bring them forward. I don't have specific examples right now except what I was given, which is that people aren't necessarily responded to and sometimes when they are it's not helpful at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you to all the witnesses for your presentations, and particularly Ms. Dulanas, thank you for your story.

I'm curious; at this point, the consultant who did your service, supposing services were provided to you, did you get a refund for that money?

[Michelle Marie Dulanas]

No, she just dropped me in the Yorkdale mall and that was it. She never—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

And this person is still practising. Do you know if this person is a licensed consultant?

[Michelle Marie Dulanas]

She is not licensed. I just realized when I arrived in Canada that she is not.