Evidence of meeting #55 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Leslie Emory  Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants
Maria Esel Panlaqui  Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Michelle Marie Dulanas  Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Kathleen Terroux  Lawyer, Legislation and Law Reform, Canadian Bar Association
Ravi Jain  Member, Immigration Law Section, Canadian Bar Association
Alli Amlani  President, Don Mills, Inter-Connections Canada Inc.
Jennifer Stone  Staff Lawyer, Neighbourhood Legal Services, Inter Clinic Immigration Working Group

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

I hear your argument.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

It's not an argument; I'm just asking for clarification.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

I think the point that makes this reasonable is that these individuals have no way of identifying what they need in an immigration consultant and they're very vulnerable and afraid of rocking the boat.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

So this is unique in that respect. Then we're holding them accountable and documentation expires and they leave the country. There really is something wrong with that.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I will say to all three of you that all of the MPs here have heard the same arguments in their offices. People have been complaining that they haven't done very well because of the actions or inactions of consultants.

With the second issue, you say there should be more public education available to all immigrants. That's a good one, I guess, more awareness, as Mr. Saroya suggested. Although the real issue is we've heard evidence, not only in our offices but here that consultants just aren't educated. They're the ones who need to be educated not the client.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

There are instances of that for sure, yes.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

They shouldn't even be consultants.

April 3rd, 2017 / 4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

Hence, you need an oversight body to determine who should and who shouldn't be a consultant.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I do like your third one, that there should be regulation of consultants. Have you ever put your thoughts to what some of those regulations might be?

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

It's just what I've listed here: very specific, very clear admission and accreditation requirements; code of standards and rules, and when they violate those, there's a repercussion; what the scope of practice should and shouldn't cover; what they defer to settlement services; their areas of responsibility; and a more robust mechanism for dealing with complaints that allows applicants to feel safe in coming forward.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

You've heard the issue of consultants having unlicensed people work with them.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

They're just people. I don't even know whether they're qualified to do anything. I don't mean to be flippant about that, but that's a serious problem.

Do you have any recommendations about that? It's like a lawyer having a law clerk, not a paralegal, going to court and representing people.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

Exactly. Again, it shouldn't happen. There should be a policy around who can fill in what document, who can sign what document, who can give direct advice.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Just so I'm clear, one of the complaints that we've heard in our own MP offices is outrageous retainers or fees being asked for, for no justification.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Do I understand that the three of you are recommending that there be a fee structure, and that applicants could challenge those fees and go to a group and actually challenge them and say those fees aren't justified?

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

Definitely.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Is that what you're recommending?

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

As Jenny pointed out, a stepped-fee system would be great, for certain milestones.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Are you recommending that they actually go to a hearing and challenge those fees?

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

Do you mean when they're not being adhered to?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I suppose. You're the one who is giving evidence.

4:15 p.m.

Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants

Leslie Emory

I'm trying to understand what you're asking.