Evidence of meeting #59 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultant.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much, Mr. Kewley.
Thank you, Ms. Fortin.
I'll start off with Mr. Kewley.
Mr. Kewley, how many investigators are there right now at ICCRC? Are you the only one?
5:15 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
No. There are two of us.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Is that enough to deal with all of the investigations that need to be under way?
5:15 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Presently it is. If we take on the ghost consultant cases in the future—which I hope we do—then it's certainly not enough.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Turning to a question Ms. Kwan asked in early March, we received some information from the Canada Border Services Agency. On average, 178 cases per year of suspected consultant offences are brought to the attention of CBSA, on which 36 investigations are opened. Out of 178, why do you think so few are opened per year? Can you garner an idea about why that's the case?
5:15 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I think that the numbers alone from ICCRC sending cases on to CBSA are a lot higher than that. I would have to get back to you on the exact numbers. I think that out of a hundred and some cases, if they're dealing with possible prosecutions on 36, that's pretty good.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Just so you know, 36 investigations are opened. Between 2011 and 2016 they've only had a “charges laid” rate from 6% to the highest, 33%. Every year is different: 32% in 2011, 6% in 2012, 15% in 2013. In the end, a small number of cases are opened, but in terms of actual charges being laid, the number is actually very small.
It may be unfair to ask you why that's the case, but maybe I can ask you what the difference is between the cases you investigate versus those of CBSA. Is it only that it's registered ICCRC investigators whom you focus on, and then for CBSA it's everybody else?
5:20 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I can answer it because of my background in police. CBSA does immigration breaches, which are specific and Criminal Code cases. How they're investigated and how they're prosecuted, and the whole procedure in that whole thing takes a long time.
I would suggest that no case will get before the court within a year or two. Whereby with ICCRC, we regulate our members with respect to a code of ethics. We go after the members if they're in breach of that code of ethics. That's more...I can't say “civil”, but it's not criminal. The procedures are totally different. For example, in a criminal case CBSA needs physical evidence. In our cases, hearsay evidence can be accepted in certain phases.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
I have another question. If someone calls you and says, “Mr. Kewley, there is a person who's an immigration consultant. He's charging a lot of money, and basically ripping off people.” Is there anything you can do, Mr. Kewley, to help investigate this? What do you do with that complaint?
5:20 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
First of all, we direct the person to fill out a complaint form, so we can get all the details and move forward. The first thing that happens when there's a complaint form filled out is that we check the person stated as the member, the consultant, against the records. If they're not a member, then that case has to be sent, based on what we have now, to CBSA. That's why we want to go after these ghost consultants. It's not happening and we need it.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
My last question is to Madame Fortin. This is a curiosity for me. How long have you been an immigration consultant?
5:20 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
I've been an immigration consultant for a year and a half.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Only a year and a half. What would be the top two or three reasons why people come to you as an immigration consultant? Is it that the forms are too difficult? Is it that they don't understand them? Is it that they have a complex case? What would be the top two or three reasons people come to you?
5:20 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
We often work on a case-by-case basis. Clients need specific information for a particular situation. It can be difficult for someone who has no immigration training to answer the client, whereas consultants like me can quickly provide the correct answer. Above all, I provide immigration support.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
It's mostly for administrative reasons. They don't understand the forms they have to fill out, or what they need to do.
5:20 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
That has been my experience to date, but I've been a consultant for only a year and a half. Later, I want to handle more complex cases.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you, Ms. Frédette Fortin.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for providing their insights to the committee.
With that, the committee will suspend and go in camera to deal with one item of committee business.
[Proceedings continue in camera]