Evidence of meeting #84 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lorne Waldman  Barrister and Solicitor, Lorne Waldman and Associates, As an Individual
John Rae  First Vice-Chair, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
Brent Diverty  Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Institute for Health Information
Michael Battista  Barrister and Solicitor, Jordan Battista LLP
Adrienne Smith  Barrister and Solicitor, Jordan Battista LLP
Maurice Tomlinson  Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network
Meagan Johnston  Staff Lawyer, HIV & AIDS Legal Clinic Ontario
Mercedes Benitez  As an Individual
Toni Schweitzer  Staff Lawyer, Parkdale Community Legal Services
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Erica Pereira

8:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

We're on.

I'm going to turn it over to Ms. Rempel, who has the floor and the camera. If you would restate your motion, reread it, we can begin again and continue debate on it.

8:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Yes.

I move:

That, notwithstanding the motion adopted by the Committee on October 16, 2017, the Committee hold an additional meeting prior to December 20, 2017, on the resettlement issues related to Yazidi women and girls; and that the Committee report its finding to the House; and that the government table a response.

For the committee's benefit, I'll give a little bit of a background on my week last week during our constituency break. I had the opportunity to meet and have calls with several of the community groups that are providing resettlement services for the Yazidi community across the country, and they watched what happened at committee last week.

To my colleagues opposite, the Liberal government has a majority government right now, which means they have a majority on this committee. This means that the Liberals, should we adopt a report, have the ability to basically word the report as they see fit. Opposition members can put a dissenting report on the end, but the thing with a report is that the government is required to respond. I don't understand why the committee members would do anything other than have a report attached to the findings of this committee, outside of the fact that they have been directed by the centre that it doesn't want the government to respond to this.

Here is what happened last week. I sat in the living room of a Yazidi family's home and I had to listen to stories about how they have family members in other parts of the country who have been redirected. They're isolated. They're struggling. We don't have enough translation services for people. It was never the intent of this committee—and I certainly hope it was not the intent of the government—to bring these people here who have suffered so much just to leave them to their own devices when frankly their lives are still at risk.

Frankly, I want to take issue with something that was said at the last meeting, that moving this motion was Conservative—I can't remember the word that was used—histrionics or hyperbole or theatrics. Yes, I get worked up on this issue, but every Canadian should get worked up on this issue. The member who said that.... I would like to ask for an apology on it. I do not understand why every single time this issue comes up before this committee we can't just do something that resembles work.

My understanding is that somebody from across the table is going to move a motion that this is going to be a letter to the minister, which the Liberal members will do anyway. It removes the responsibility of the government to respond to the work of this committee. If the government members want to respond to the centre, if they want to take direction from the centre rather than from people who are sitting at the end of the table, that is fine. That's your prerogative. You can write the recommendations in that report how you see fit. I want the government to have to respond, because if we don't get this right, we are failing the world's most vulnerable.

I am so sick of sitting in the living rooms of these people's homes, of listening to these women, and of us failing to act on their behalf. I don't want to have to come to our chair and to each and every one of you every three months asking for another report on this because we are not making ends meet. I don't want to have to keep asking our chair in the House of Commons what we're doing. I don't want to have to keep listening to department officials saying that only five women have had access to care. I just want it done, and I don't understand why this is so hard for this government that makes their brand “welcome to Canada”, doing something that's compassionate. If somebody across the way is going to entertain amending this motion, I don't accept it. I'm just going to pre-empt you right now.

We need to have a report out of this study. We need to have some concrete recommendations on how the government is going to go forward. The Liberals in this committee can do as they see fit. Every single person I met with and called this week does not understand why there is a disconnect between the message that the Liberals put forward with the Syrian refugee initiative and what is happening with this particular cohort of people. I don't understand it, either.

I ask each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart, from a place of genuine concern for women whose lives are at risk, to just issue a report. Your minister can put forward whatever he responds, but you cannot have good government unless you have good opposition. I am so tired of keeping my staff involved in this. I'm so tired of spending so much time on something your government is supposed to be good at.

I look at you as members who are not part of the government. Your job is to hold the government to account too, even if it's the same party.

If you're going to amend this motion, no, I don't accept it. If you want to put forward a letter to the minister, that's cowardice. If we are going to do this, we should do it right. There is absolutely no reason outside of cowardice and bowing to the centre, abandoning these women, that we would not put the findings of this committee study into a report.

I rest my case.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Ms. Zahid.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to move an amendment to Ms. Rempel's motion. I would like to amend it by deleting everything after “women and girls” and replacing it with the following:

and that the Committee write a letter to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada reporting on the testimony it has heard during this briefing.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

We will now debate the amendment.

Ms. Kwan.

8:40 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Could I just clarify one thing? When you say “a letter”, are you referring to it as an open letter or a confidential letter?

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

An open letter.

8:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you.

I just wanted to clarify because there are two kinds of letters that can be sent.

8:40 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would not support the amendment. I think that the reason is quite obvious, really, and that is for us to do our work. We had compelling information that came forward from the officials and from the witnesses who came before us. To write a letter...some people would say, “What is the difference between a letter versus a report?” Well, there's a significant difference.

A letter is simply to say, “Here's what we heard.” A report will speak to recommendations and the government would have to respond to those recommendations as per the rules as they apply to committee. I think that there is value in that. I think there's value in that for the opposition, but also for the government members too. More importantly, I think there's a lot of value in that for the people who came before us.

I can't get out of my mind the victims, the survivors, and particularly Nadia, who spoke with us in her first meeting in the summer. It seems so long ago now, but it really wasn't that long ago. I remember meeting her at my office and how looking at her I could see how her trauma was haunting her still. In spite of that, she found the courage to come before us, to advocate, to do this work, and to continue to do this work. The work is not done. The job is not done. We've only just begun this work. In that process when we heard from the witnesses in the summer, I had always envisioned that the first phase of this work was to do this immediate 1,000-plus people in terms of coming forward, and that there were steps to follow. We all heard that at the committee.

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I have a staff member who very loudly was interrupting my colleague and disrespecting her by saying, “Just let her talk it out.”

That's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's a point of order on decorum.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I would say it's not a point of order.

Would the member, please, continue?

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I won't bore the members. I have to say—

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Don't give me a look like that.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

I can look.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Order, please.

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

No, you can't. You don't have the right to look at me with a sneer when we're dealing with something like this.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

May I have order?

Ms. Kwan has the floor.

8:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will finish by simply saying that it was always my hope—and I thought it was the committee's vision as well—that we would do this work in the summer as phase one, which the government did act on and which was to bring the 1,200 Yazidis over by the end of the year, but we always knew that work was not complete. We always knew. At least in my heart, I knew that work was not complete and that we needed to continue. The witnesses who came before us in the summer said that as well. That's exactly what the witnesses in this round said to us in terms of the work that needs to continue. I really don't understand why there is harm for this committee in doing our work independently.

Mr. Chair, you are a new chair of this committee and you have said to me—and I don't think you mind me saying this publicly—that this committee works independently of government and independently of the minister, and that we have our own minds and our own capacity to do our work. The chair before you, Mr. Oliphant, reiterated the same thing. He said to us that the work we do here could be some of the most important work that we will do as members of Parliament. We have the chance to make a difference in putting forward this report.

We're talking about saving lives: the lives of people, of women, of victims who have been raped. There are victims who are being killed, and there are those who are coming out to plead for help. There is a genocide against this community. We owe them that much, to say that this work will continue. We owe them that much to do our work as committee members to put a full report to the minister and to have the minister respond to us accordingly. That is accountability. That's transparency. If we do that, we should all be very proud of what we're doing here, even when we disagree, Mr. Chair.

I hope the members will retract the amendment. Let's get on with it. Let's get on with it and do something that's really cool, you know. I think we can do it.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I have Ms. Rempel and then Mr. Maguire.

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I'd like to propose a subamendment to my colleague's amendment, so that following onto her amendment it would read “and that the content of the letter be developed in a televised meeting, and that the minister appear before committee to respond to the letter prior to February 28, 2018”.

I would like my colleagues to have to go on the record to defend the fact that they are not requiring the government to provide a response. If they don't want a report because the centre, or their parliamentary secretary, or the staffer in the green shirt who just told my colleague to talk it out....

You should be embarrassed.

The next time, honestly, Mr. Chair, I would invite that staff member to come and meet with me when I have to meet with these Yazidi women. I would love that staff member to come and watch and listen to those women, and we'll see afterwards who's talking it out.

Shame on you.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I think she's being a bully and harassing staff members, and I think she should apologize for that.

8:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Chair, I would like my colleague who said I was being theatrical in the last meeting to apologize to me. I would like my colleague opposite who gave me a sneering look to apologize. This is serious, and I make no apologies for being serious on this issue.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Stop being a bully, Michelle. Come on.

8:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Order. Ms. Rempel has the floor.