Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 21st, 2016

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

If a group of individuals are deemed to be stateless and are in that situation for a whole variety of reasons, I wonder if you have any suggestions as to whether or not an amendment should be brought forward under Bill C-6 to address these groups of individuals.

I'll open it up to all the presenters.

[Avvy Go]

In our clinic, a lot of the stateless individuals are former citizens of Vietnam. Many of them have been in Canada for a long time. Some of them, for whatever reason, lost their Canadian permanent resident status at some point. Many have mental health issues. They had some criminality linked to their mental health, lost their permanent resident status, and became stateless because they have no country to return to.

There are other situations as well. I know that the CCR, for instance, has raised a number of these concerns, as well as concerns around unaccompanied minors who are in Canada and can't get citizenship without the parents.

I guess there is no single solution to this issue. There are different situations, and some of them may need to be dealt with not in citizenship law but under immigration law.

Certainly, I think it needs to be addressed. I don't think I can offer you one solution that will address all the stateless issues, because there are different situations within which one becomes stateless.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Green.

[Stephen Green]

Unfortunately, I have not experienced it yet, so I can't comment on it.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Kurland.

[Richard Kurland]

It merits careful scrutiny for the following security reason. If I'm the HR director of a very nasty group in the Middle East seeking to do damage in Canada or in our like-minded allies, I would be focusing my recruitment efforts among the stateless who are physically present in Canada. They're ripe for recruitment. We must collect the empirical evidence and track this group carefully. We cannot leave them without remedy.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

For example, there are groups of people who are deemed stateless because they're second-generation Canadians. When they have children overseas, in that instance they don't have access to Canadian citizenship. What are your thoughts about that? Should they be granted Canadian citizenship?

[Avvy Go]

Yes, I think that's an area that needs to be improved.

For instance, I have relatives where the husband was born in Canada and the wife wasn't. They're both citizens. I was advising them to make sure, when the kids are born overseas, that it's the father who applies for their citizenship, because if they apply for citizenship under the mother, their children may not become Canadian citizens. I think that example highlights the unfairness of the situation. I would certainly recommend that this provision be amended.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Kurland, can I have a quick answer on that? I have one other question to ask, if I have time.

[Richard Kurland]

The quick answer is to merge the issue into the creation of a structural remedy for discretion in individual citizenship cases.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

In the case where minors are without a parent—for a whole variety of reasons—they are precluded, under Bill C-6, from making an application for citizenship. Other witnesses have come forward to say that we should have provisions to address that issue, along with that of people with disabilities.

I have probably less than 30 seconds now, so I'm splitting that among all of you.

[Avvy Go]

I agree. They should be allowed to apply for citizenship.

[Richard Kurland]

There's a conflict between this proposed amendment and the rights of the child, the international rights of the child.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That is to say that they should have the right to make application. Am I correct?

[Richard Kurland]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I want to be absolutely clear about that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Mr. Chen, please, you have seven minutes.

[Shaun Chen, Liberal, Scarborough North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with Mr. Tabbara.

I want to thank the witnesses for appearing before us today.

My question is directed to you, Ms. Go and Mr. Wong. I want to first congratulate the work of the Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic for their advocacy on immigration and other related issues. I'm aware that the majority of your clients are of Chinese descent. I speak as a member of this committee but also as a Chinese Canadian to say that I know how two-tier citizenship doesn't work. We know that Chinese Canadians arrived in Canada in the late 19th century and were subject to the Chinese head tax, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and were treated as second-class citizens. I always say that we use history to learn from the mistakes of the past and to guide us moving forward.

My question is related to what you believe can be done to better support marginalized groups that come to Canada. The Chinese were in Canada to help build the railroad, a job that Canadians at the time were not prepared to do. As we all know, the House issued a formal apology 10 years ago. The last spike, which was presented to the Prime Minister at the time, was lost, and most recently found again. This symbolizes how the Chinese were not given a pathway to citizenship and were not treated as equal citizens.

We know that many people come to Canada as live-in caregivers, as temporary workers. Do you believe Bill C-6 goes far enough to provide them with a pathway to become full citizens?

[Avvy Go]

With respect to temporary foreign workers and live-in caregivers, I think the pathway to citizenship was blocked within the immigration law itself. I think amendments need to be made there in order for them to become permanent residents. Then they can apply for citizenship.

With respect to support for the Chinese community, in the context of citizenship I want to highlight two points. One is the need for a lot more investment in language classes. I agree, as do many, that it is better for immigrants to acquire the linguistic skills in order for them to succeed, but if you have a low-wage job and you have to care for your kids, this is not something you're able to do for a long time. In fact, we're just about to release a report on Chinese restaurant workers on Monday that will show that a lot of them work extremely long hours without minimum wage and so on. I think support for supplemental language classes for immigrants is very important.

The second part I think is access to employment. One of the reasons a lot of our clients actually have to leave Canada and go to other countries is that they can't get a job within their field in Canada. Their international credentials are not recognized in Canada. I remember how one of my clients who used to work for IBM in China couldn't get a job with IBM in Canada. She had to move to the States to work for IBM again.

I think those issues need to be addressed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Go.

Mr. Tabbara, you have three and a half minutes.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you to all for being here today.

My first question is for Ms. Go and Mr. Green.

Some constituents of mine have come here. Their families are Canadian citizens, but unfortunately one of the members who has to travel overseas is not. Could you give the committee examples of what you've encountered where otherwise desirable or worthy citizenship applicants would be unable to acquire citizenship as a result of Bill C-24's restrictions and physical residency requirements?

[Avvy Go]

I can give you two examples of what we often see at the clinic. One is with regard to the access to employment issue. Usually it's the husband who is not able to get a decent job in Canada. The wife and kids are in Canada. The kids go to school in Canada, but often the husband has to move or go overseas to get a job that pays enough to support the family in Canada. Of course, in some cases they may not even be able to retain their permanent resident status, because they may not be working for a Canadian employer. At the end of the day, the question becomes whether or not they have a centralized mode of residence in Canada.

The second example would be students who are studying in another country. I think somebody gave an example of someone going to Harvard or Yale. It may not be Harvard or Yale. It could be another university, but the fact is that their families are here. Their parents are here. The kids go overseas to study, but they come back to Canada. Then they have to wait much longer before they can become citizens. Is it really in the best interests of Canada to delay their citizenship applications?

[Stephen Green]

I don't think there's a person in Canada, except a citizenship judge, who's attended more citizenship hearings than myself with my clients. I can tell you the normal situation with respect to the business people is that they have successful businesses inside of Canada, they're exporting Canadian products, they're travelling abroad, and their spouses and their children are eligible for citizenships, but they can't get them under the new legislation. They have to make the decision, do they limit their amount of business, which would not be a good thing for Canada, to get their citizenships? I think that's the typical one I see, and I think it's a bad move. Years ago it wasn't an issue, but now they've changed the law. These people would be able to demonstrate they paid their taxes, their kids go to school, and they created jobs in Canada, but that doesn't matter anymore.

It's putting their—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thirty seconds.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

If I can ask this quickly to Mr. Green.

You had a case of an immigrant from Cyprus. He was a student, I think, by the name of Papadogiorgakis. Can you tell us a bit about his situation?