Evidence of meeting #90 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marta Morgan  Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Greg Kipling  Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Paul MacKinnon  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Harpreet Kochhar  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Dawn Edlund  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Daniel Mills  Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Michael MacDonald  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you, Mr. Maguire. Five minutes goes fast.

Go ahead, Mr. Whelan, for five minutes.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I note that different countries have different cultural norms, and of course we're trying to make sure that when Canadians come here they attend to those norms. One of Canada's norms is that we're going to do everything we can to prevent gender-based violence, yet when Jason Kenney and the Conservatives implemented a policy called “conditional permanent residency”, this policy required sponsored partners to live with their sponsors for at least two years in order to maintain their status in Canada, forcing those who were experiencing domestic violence or sexual abuse to stay silent or risk losing their status. This put spouses in vulnerable situations.

Can the minister please explain or outline for the committee why it was important for our government to repeal this atrocious policy, and any costs that might have been associated with repealing the policy?

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

When conditional PR was put in place by the Conservative government, women's advocacy groups, other advocacy groups, experts, everyone told them to not do that, because it would place women in vulnerable situations. They didn't listen. They went ahead with a wrong-headed policy, and here we are.

We made the decision to eliminate conditional PR for two reasons. One is that we believe very strongly that it was putting people in vulnerable situations, and they were mostly women, so we felt that we had to eliminate that policy. Second, the vast majority of people who are sponsored or sponsor spouses do so in good faith, and the repeal of conditional PR was also a recognition of that. Finally, we have confidence and trust in our immigration officers, who undergo rigorous training to be able to detect and deter and deal with marriage fraud. That's an example.

We were talking earlier about the citizenship guide. That's an example of how our government is different. We actually listen to experts. We want to hear from as many people as possible, before we put together—

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

On that note, Minister, I'm interested to know a bit about the process.

In a number of the consultations the government has taken, including those for the health guide, there are white papers published, there are consultations by the ministerial staff, and then a draft policy would be published for a phase two consultation. Will there be a phase two consultation associated with the citizenship guide that will give MPs and other parliamentarians an opportunity to deal with constituents and obtain additional feedback? That's been a part of the process in other departments.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

I can absolutely commit to consulting members of Parliament and senators in the consultation process that we're already engaged in. Part of that will be my personal commitment to make sure we consult caucus and senators and make sure that we are able to get their input.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Perfect. Thank you.

Of course, as you had mentioned earlier, when I look online at the current Discover Canada citizenship guidelines, it does have on page 9 a number of differences between cultural practices in other countries that are either illegal but tolerated, or legal or even endorsed, which in Canada would be considered crimes, but it's not laid out in particularly clear way. It's labelled under the heading “barbaric cultural practices”.

When we're trying to educate people on how to conform to cultural norms, I also note that there are others here that aren't indicated. Violence against children and corporal punishment aren't an issue. Is there going to be a broader list of cultural norms to show changes and differences between Canada's laws and the countries from which people are emigrating so the guidelines will be more effective in teaching people what their new legal obligations will be when they come to Canada?

9:20 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marta Morgan

The guide is still under development, so the precise nature of what will be included in the guide has not been finalized. I would underline that one of the messages that has been heard in the consultative process is the importance of human rights, including gender equality, to Canada and Canadian citizenship. I would expect that this will be a strong theme in the guide.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

In terms of costs associated with this process, in other committees we talk about moving towards project-based estimates whereby parliamentarians will have a clear line of sight to how much individual projects cost so they can better question staff.

Do you have a project breakdown for the consultation process and what the overall costs for that would be so that we can better understand the scope and breadth of what's being done?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I'm afraid I'm going to ask you to submit that to the committee, if you're able to.

Thank you, Mr. Whalen.

Mr. Saroya is next.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and his staff.

Minister, I have a couple of questions for you regarding crooked consultants. Have you or your staff directed the department to begin the process of creating a new legislative framework for the body responsible for governing immigration and citizenship consultants?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

As you know, the House of Commons just had a unanimous vote on the recommendations emanating from this committee, and I want to thank the committee for its work.

This is an important issue. A lot of governments didn't act. We want to act, but we want to get it right, so we're making sure that we get this right.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Have you started the process yet?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

We are examining all of the recommendations with the intention of doing this right.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Is there anything you can table to the committee here?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Not at this time, no.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Have you or your staff directed to begin the process of creating, by statute, an independent public interest body empowered to regulate and govern the profession of immigration consultants?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Not yet, but we're studying the recommendations to make sure we get this right.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Have you or your staff directed to begin the process of creating a new legislative and enforcement framework concerning the offences of practising as an immigration consultant while not authorized, and other related offences?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

We're concerned about the problem. We know the committee has studied the issue and produced very useful recommendations, and we intend to make sure that we get this right.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Have you or your staff directed the department to examine an oversight process for immigration consultants by which they can only operate if overseen by a lawyer?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

We want to make sure that as we proceed with issues, we protect the Canadian public, and we want to get it right. Many governments have tried to do something on immigration consultants and have not been able to do that. We want to not only do the right thing, but do it right.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Minister, have you directed the department to develop new procedures for processing applications and for communicating with clients and prospective applicants as it relates to this committee's recommendation found in the report entitled “Starting Again: Improving Government Oversight in Immigration Consultants”? Have you done anything at all?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

As I said, we're looking at the recommendations with the intention of moving in the right way to make sure we satisfy the concerns of Canadians with respect to immigration consultants.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Do you have any time frame for looking at it? Would it be six months, nine months, five months?

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON

I think by the spring we'll have something in place.