Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Ambassador. I appreciate your coming to us and your good will about Canada's role internationally on refugees.

I just want to remind you that we're actually one of the rare countries where we have more demand for refugees than we even have.... Our private refugee sponsors are actually eager to take more. It's a good problem to have, and I'm glad that the world is recognizing that.

I work from a ground level, and you're at 10,000 feet. As Ms. Kwan said, we settled thousands of refugees last year and the year before. One of the biggest challenges we find is that when they come to our constituency offices—and my office sees among the greatest number in the country—they are still worried about their loved ones, their brothers' and sisters' families, their extended families, and we have no ability to match them or to prioritize those who are their siblings or loved ones. When we contact UNHCR, we get no response. Our government can't select them.

Is there a way that your office can help facilitate or accelerate those who have siblings here? What happens is that they are not able to settle as fast here when they're worried about their families. They're not getting jobs as fast. They're not learning English as fast, as opposed to economic immigrants who are eager to do that, because they're still worried about them.

We have seen in studies here that settlement is much more successful when family is here, when extended family is here. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[William Lacy Swing]

You're absolutely right. We give strong priority to family reunification. People who are there with their families are much more likely to be productive and good citizens than those who have their families stranded elsewhere.

I think, again, that the best thing to do if you have a particular case is to bring it to my attention. I have a very close relationship with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. We meet on a regular basis. We're literally five minutes apart in terms of our offices. I know that they believe strongly in family reunification too. This is why I think some of the discussion recently about wanting to put that in a more secondary level is unfortunate. I think we will always seek to reunite families.

I don't know exactly what recent developments there have been in UNHCR because I would have thought they were committed to the same principle. I will discuss it, though, with Filippo Grandi when I go back to Geneva to see if there's any change there. I would be surprised.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

That problem is across the board. When we talk to our colleagues, other members of Parliament from across the country, it remains an issue, and there's no ability to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to cut you off.

Mr. Tilson, you have five minutes.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Swing, I had the opportunity to attend the Council of Europe in Strasbourg a number of times, and the topic of migration is always there. The Europeans are most concerned with illegal migration, such as people coming across the Mediterranean or through Turkey or otherwise.

They ask us if we have any problems as Canadians. Normally, we say that we've had Sri Lankan boats arriving and Vietnamese boats arriving, but generally we have these oceans, so we don't really have the same problems they do.

However, all of a sudden, we have a problem. We have illegal migration coming from the United States of America, and it's causing us very serious problems.

I have a couple of questions. Can you tell me whether you think the United States of America is a safe third country?

[William Lacy Swing]

I like to think that it still is. There are constraints and ways within the checks and balances system to give protection to migrants. I think that it doesn't mean they don't have fears from what they've heard from recent pronouncements that it might not be good to be there. I suspect that's happening.

If they believe what they hear, I know that they might think it's not like it used to be, but at this point, I would judge that it's still a safe third country. I have no reason to question that.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I appreciate that it's rather a difficult question for me to ask an American whether—

[William Lacy Swing]

No. I'm speaking as the Director General of IOM.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Of course you are, sir, but you are from the United States, and we appreciate that.

This illegal migration is causing us great problems. The government is dealing with it by spending vast amounts of resources on dealing with these people, whether in Quebec or out west, but they're coming. I don't know what the latest figures are, but they're still coming. They are mainly people who have come through the United States from Haiti.

With your experience in other areas, can you give us some advice? I am asking because, as a result of the resources that are being spent on this problem, we're not able to use those resources in other areas—use them for people who want to immigrate here, people who want to get visas, etc. We're spending vast amounts.

Can you give us some advice as to how we should deal with the problems and whether you've had any discussions with the authorities in the United States as to how they can help us? I mean, they arrive by taxi. They arrive by taxi to our border and cross over.

[William Lacy Swing]

I've become aware of this in the short time I've been here. Do we have figures on it? Do you have some idea of what the numbers are? They are apparently quite large. They are mostly Haitians, I suppose, and El Salvadoreans.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's 40,000.

[William Lacy Swing]

I was ambassador to Haiti for five years. It's a place I dearly love, and I know you have a strong commitment to Haiti. The temporary protective status had been in place since the earthquake. However, when the TPS was removed, I guess they started coming across the border.

I would suggest that the best thing....

Are you having bilateral conversations in Washington?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I guess I'm asking if the United States of America closed the loophole in our safe third country agreement that allows people to illegally enter Canada and claim asylum. Can you give us a comment on that?

[William Lacy Swing]

I think, again, that it's a bilateral question to discuss with the United States.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

What's your advice?

[William Lacy Swing]

It's to talk to them, to explain. Give them figures and say this is happening. Say, “You've lifted temporary protective status; could you not restore it?”

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Sir, you say you want orderly migration. There's a problem. The theme of your organization is to provide orderly migration. We don't have it here. All of a sudden Canada's got a problem.

[William Lacy Swing]

You have the same problem now that Europe has with people coming into Europe. If the numbers are manageable, could you give them temporary protective status?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I appreciate the work you're doing in Europe, but now all of sudden we've got a problem in North America. The Americans have their problems. I don't know what this wall business is that's going on. People have their comments about that.

However, I'm strictly talking about Canada. We have a problem in Canada because of illegal migrants coming to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Tilson. I need to end you there.

Just to make sure the record is correct on that number and you're not left with the wrong number, in 2017, it was 20,953, not 40,000. It was 20,953 asylum seekers who crossed the border at those points. It's actually not as far off other years, when we look at a year-to-year study. I just wanted to make sure you had that number.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, it's actually a significant increase from other years. That 20,000 figure for migrants crossing illegally and claiming asylum is one of the largest in history. The number 40,000—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I don't think that's a point of order. Thank you.

[An hon. member]

It is a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It is. You just put a fact on the record that is factually incorrect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The number of 20,953 is correct.