Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to end there. We're quite a bit over on the five minutes.

Minister, you promised us an hour. We started a minute or two late, could you do a little bit more?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Very good.

Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and your staff for doing this.

I want to just focus on the refugee numbers. With respect to the three-year projection for the overall numbers for the next three years, could you indicate what the numbers are, the quantums are, for refugees for each of these years?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The total number for refugees and protected persons for 2018 is 43,000. Out of that, for protected persons in Canada it's 16,000 for this year. Resettled refugees, which combines a number of them, is 27,000. Of those resettled refugees, there are 7,500 for the government assisted. Blended visa office-referred is 1,500. Privately sponsored is 18,000, which is, by the way, almost more than four times what the previous government had under their program.

That's the program that is used to sponsor vulnerable people, including survivors of Daesh. I just wanted to point that out.

For next year, that number, I don't know if you want to know specific...?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

You can give us the overall, then maybe the....

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

For 2018, the overall number is 43,000. That's refugees and protected persons. For 2019, it's 45,650. For 2020 it's 48,700. In each of those years the privately sponsored refugee numbers go up by a big margin.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I do have to commend you for that, Minister, because it's an area I know is of really high need. I was able to visit some of the refugee camps in Bangladesh. This is one of those things that came up over and over again.

I just want to pick up on something I know you and I have had many conversations about, and that's with respect to legacy files. Based on my conversations with the IRB, it would appear that there is a path to address the legacy files.

Can you indicate whether those numbers, and I think the last number I heard from them is just over 5,000, would be part of the 2018 figures?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Some were part of the 2017 numbers because they were processed then and they would have had to apply at that time. Some would apply this year.

I must commend you for your work on the legacy refugees issue. As you know, the Immigration and Refugee Board put together a task force to tackle the legacy cases. They are actually working really hard. They have an approval rate of about 35%. This is from January to September 2017. They made almost 400 finalizations of many of the legacy cases. They are continuing to work through those legacy cases to make sure that those people are given closure in terms of their files.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I just have to say that is an area that's been a source of a great deal of stress, because when the previous government introduced the new legislation, people were in queue for a very long time.

With respect to the H and C stream, where would they fit with respect to the numbers? Do we have any indication as to whether those numbers will go up each year? If so, are additional resources going into that stream for the processing?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

For the humanitarian considerations and other stream, as part of this plan this year we're holding steady at 3,500, but for 2019, there's a jump to 4,250. For 2020, there's a small increase to 4,500 people.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Finally, with respect to the privately sponsored refugee applications, I know that you had indicated that at least for the first year it's four times what the previous government had allowed. I think towards 2020, if I'm not mistaken, it will be upward of five times.

How does that compare with other countries in terms of resettlement? I know there are some in Europe. I know Canada is amongst the top. Do you know how we compare?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

In terms of privately sponsored refugees, we're now one of only two countries that have this model. Canada used to be the only country that had that. Now the U.K. has a so-called community refugee sponsorship initiative, which they learned from Canada, but the numbers are very small. We're the only country in the world that allows ordinary Canadians and organizations and faith groups to sponsor refugees.

That program works really well. The outcomes are much better than they are for the government-sponsored refugees. Also, it costs half the money that it costs the government to process government refugees, which is why we like this program and why there's an increasing number every year for the next—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to pause there. The officials will stay.

Ms. Kwan, we will start with you and continue that round. You will have two chances in the next round.

We'll take a brief pause, and thank the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Could we come back to order?

We will continue our questioning with you, Ms. Kwan. You have a little over three minutes. Because Ms. Rempel had a little bit more time and Mr. Anandasangaree had more time, you get about four minutes this round. Then we will get to the seven-minute round.

This gives me a chance before that question to thank the officials once again, not only for appearing before us. That's your job and we're glad you do that, but I also thank you for your public service. It is great to see that. This is a department that stretches everyone who works there, so on behalf of our committee, thank you for your public service.

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. chair.

Thank you to the officials.

At the committee, officials confirmed that the cost-benefit analysis as it relates to paragraph 38(1)(c) does not consider the benefits aspect of the applicants. Clearly this is a flawed process. Now that it has been brought to the attention of the officials, has the application evaluation process for paragraph 38(1)(c) changed to include the benefits analysis component?

[Marta Morgan]

As the minister noted, we are in the midst of a fundamental review of the policy, which will consider all of the aspects of the policy including ensuring that applicants are treated in a fair and equitable manner, and that the policy aligns with Canadian values regarding inclusion, which includes both costs and benefits.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Has the policy changed since that time, or are we still using the same policy at the moment?

[Marta Morgan]

We're engaged in a fulsome review of the policy, which includes both costs and benefits of all aspects of the policy.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In the application evaluation of individual cases, are benefits being evaluated in the processing of those cases right now?

[Marta Morgan]

Current cases are being evaluated under existing guidelines and policy frameworks. Should there be a change in the policy, then we would introduce new procedures.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, so no changes have been made right now and cases are still being processed based on these flawed evaluation criteria.

For how many cases currently in the system does paragraph 38(1)(c) apply?

[Dawn Edlund, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

We would have to get the number for you, but the testimony before the committee in previous appearances has been that it is typically around 900 to 1,000 cases annually.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If I could get that number specifically for the committee, I would appreciate it.

How long has each case been waiting to be processed? Can we have that number attached to the number of cases? Is it one, two, five years? That would be very helpful as well. Can I get confirmation that I can get that information?