Evidence of meeting #98 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Aterman  Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Greg Kipling  Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I would give you leave to consult with your lawyers.

12:05 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

I will do that.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

There's been a request for a report. You'll have to consult to decide whether or not you'll respond, whether it's appropriate for you to respond.

12:05 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

All right.

According to the information on appointments provided to us on the appointments, there are some 26 vacancies. Has the IRB made requests for the government to fill the outstanding order in council appointments? For example, in Calgary there has been a vacancy for 2,929 days, in Toronto for 534 days.

12:05 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

We certainly make our needs known to the government, yes.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Okay.

How many resources would be required to train them if these appointments were filled? How long would it take until they could begin hearing cases? On average, how many extra cases per year would these 26 new appointees be able to hear? What kinds of resources in total would be required for the appointment, for the training and resourcing of these appointees?

If you don't have that information, you can table it with the committee.

12:05 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

We would have to get back to you on some aspects of those questions. Being able to segregate the institutional costs around training, I wouldn't know what they are, off the top of my head. I can see whether we can get it. Disaggregating it is not that simple.

Getting up to speed takes a minimum of six months from the time of appointment, and even then in the period from six to 12 months, members are not working at optimal output. We really expect them to be fully productive after 12 months. How many cases that translates into is a function of which division they're assigned to.

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

—a member of the IAD, fully productive, is expected to complete in the order of 150 appeals a year.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Great. If you can give us some projections, then, in the different areas, that would be appreciated.

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

How many members with valid complaints on their record have been reappointed?

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

I would have to get back to you on that. I don't know.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Okay, that's fine. I know these are detailed questions.

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

Some of that is a question of how far back we go. Are you talking about current sitting members?

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

That's correct.

How many complaints against board members are submitted annually? Does the IRB track how many complaints are made by board members? Can we also get a list of the breakdown of those sanctions for these individuals whose complaints were found to be valid?

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

The numbers fluctuate fairly considerably. We have numbers going back to 2009. If you average it, it's about 18 a year.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

I can stop you there. Can you give us a list of how many complaints, breaking it down by year, and provide that information to the committee?

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

Yes. When you go further back some of the record-keeping is not terribly accurate.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Start with 2009 and go from there.

Are there any processes in place to ensure that a lawyer does not appear before a board member if they currently have a complaint in the system?

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

No. I can tell you why not. The complaints process has to be reconciled with the integrity of the adjudicative process, and what we don't want to do is turn the complaints process into a vehicle for shopping for members that a particular counsel may like to appear before, and to avoid members that they don't want to appear in front of.

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Can you provide for the committee the information on.... Does the IRB know how often it happens that a person has an active complaint with a member and that they actually have a current case with? Do you track that information and can you provide that information to the committee?

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

When a complaint is made, very frequently what happens is that the counsel makes a complaint and at the same time they make a bias motion in front of the member in the hearing room. They're under an obligation to do that if they're alleging—

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

I understand that process. I'm just wondering whether or not the IRB tracks this information and if you can provide it to the committee.

12:10 p.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

I don't know if we track it. We will know about any individual case in which a particular counsel has raised a concern about a member, but we would have to look at all of the other cases that this counsel has to see whether that member sat on those.