Evidence of meeting #98 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A video is available from Parliament.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
I believe two. I'll have to check. We can get—
Noon
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thanks, I'll move on.
I just wonder if you could table to the committee, please, a detailed overview of the anti-harassment and gender and sexuality sensitivity training that new IRB members undergo. Could you detail that to us and table that to the committee at some point?
Noon
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
How are board members reprimanded? If there's a complaint against them and it's found to be legitimate, how are they reprimanded?
Noon
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
It depends on what the nature of the complaint is. We try to make the response sort of proportionate to the problem, so it can range from things like sitting down with the member and reminding them of their obligations under the code. It can also consist of doing that in writing, with a formal reprimand. It can involve them being required to undergo training in specific areas. There are instances where we've removed a person from hearing cases until we've been satisfied that they're in a position to go back into the hearing room.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
We've had instances where the person's employment has ended at the board, yes.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
It doesn't happen very often. It depends on the nature of the process. More typically, in the case of governor-in-council appointees, their term comes to an end and they're not recommended for re-appointment. If it's someone under the Public Service Employment Act it's a longer and more cumbersome process.
Noon
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you.
We've heard of—this may be a bit of a harsh word—Kafkaesque oppression and that sort of thing. We've heard the IRB described like that, but it's not clear how the complaints are investigated. That's what we've heard. Who conducts those investigations? The complainant is not informed of the disciplinary actions taken against members. You've just indicated, perhaps, that it doesn't happen in the middle of the process, of course, but we're finding that they don't know those results at the end of the process either.
How often do you refer complaints to outside third party people for investigation?
Noon
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
We have done it, not particularly frequently. I can tell you, off the top of my head, I can think of four instances, I think, in which we've done it. They've been ones where there's been very serious misconduct, in some instances, criminal behaviour. We had one instance, a few years ago, where it was just a very heated dispute between the member and a counsel and in that instance, actually it was Mario Dion who was hired to conduct an investigation into that particular complaint and he concluded that there was no breach of the code.
Noon
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
One of the concerns raised is that the IRB appointees don't have any legal background. Would you support updating the requirements that ensure that at least some formal legal education is required?
12:05 p.m.
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Ultimately, the hiring choices and the criteria when it comes to Governor in Council appointees are a matter right now for the Privy Council Office, because they control that process, but let me just speak to that generally, because the board is an administrative tribunal, and we're supposed to be accessible, and we're supposed to be non-legalistic, and we're supposed to be informal.
We have a number of members who are not lawyers. In my view, it's actually a good thing. The proportion of lawyers is fairly high. I don't have it precisely, but I would say that it's in the order of around 79% who have a legal degree, but in my experience, you can have a law degree and not be very good as a decision-maker. I think the learning curve is long—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I guess where I'm going is, and there are some though.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
There's still 21% someplace. Do they have any legal background? I'm not saying that they have to be lawyers. It's just the outline of the legal system they may need to go through in the course of the interviews with the complainants. How many of these current IRB decision-makers do not have any legal experience? Is it the full other 21%?
12:05 p.m.
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
I can't tell you exactly because there may be some of those who have no formal legal training but have experience as adjudicators in other administrative tribunals.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Thank you. Sorry, I have to end you there.
Ms. Kwan, you have seven and a half minutes.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you to the officials.
The interim third-party report by Neil Yeates is said to be comprehensive. I assume, therefore, that it would have addressed issues of training, appointments, and complaints. I wonder if you could table a copy of that report with this committee.
12:05 p.m.
Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
This is a report; it's advice to the minister. It's been shared with the board. To be perfectly frank, I'm not sure whether it's the board's to table.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I know, but we're at this committee and we're studying the issue of appointments, complaints, and training. If that report touched on those issues, I think it would be very informative for this committee to take a look at it to see what work has been done.