Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 7th, 2020

[Bryn de Chastelain]

This is an extremely important topic in ensuring that international students who are keen to and able to stay in Canada are given opportunities to do so.

In terms of the specific example you mentioned, it's not something that I was necessarily aware of, although I'm very keen to connect with some of our colleagues from the Union d'étudiante du Québec with regard to what they've heard on challenges for French-speaking international students who are attempting to stay in Canada.

There's something we can do. Study permits and the post-graduate work permit process can be very technical, but it is important to ensure that we're thinking about making that option for international students to stay as accessible as possible to ensure that we are remaining competitive next to countries like Australia and the United Kingdom in attracting international students in the first place.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

I now want to ask Mr. Mahmood some questions.

Regarding the lottery for sponsoring parents and grandparents, some witnesses have brought up the possibility of completely eliminating the financial criterion. We're talking about situations where, even though the families don't have the financial capacity to take them in, the grandparents or parents could simply be very helpful and could serve as an indirect resource, so to speak.

I want to hear your thoughts on this matter. Should we review the need for the financial criterion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Mahmood, you are on mute.

[Usman Mahmood]

Thank you.

If I understand it correctly, your question is whether there are parents and grandparents who could be sponsored here without any income qualifications. Is that your question?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes.

[Usman Mahmood]

Thank you very much.

I do understand the problem with it, in that Canada wants to make sure that it's protecting the people who are coming into the country and they are being supported by the family who are already here while they are also taking care of their family who is there.

I don't think that's our biggest concern. It's not our biggest challenge at the moment. There are people out there who are willing to support their families and are able to bring their families.

However, what we can do is reduce the low-income cut-off, which I think the government has done. That is a great job on their part, and we had no choice because currently with the pandemic, a lot of people have lost their jobs in various parts of the country. The problem really is the timeline and the issue is the complexity. That's something the government needs to work on.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Let's say that we should keep assessing the financial capacity of sponsors. You spoke about eliminating the lottery system. In this case, should we conduct an initial and very broad screening based on the financial capacity of sponsors? That way, we could immediately notify people who certainly wouldn't qualify. This would make it possible to prioritize the people who are more likely to qualify.

[Usman Mahmood]

As far as the financial capacity is concerned, I think that's going to be a challenge for everyone at the moment, but reducing the low-income cut-off would certainly help, and that needs to be seen.

The government needs to streamline the applications that are currently in process, and this lottery system, the number of entries that we're going to get, is going to further exacerbate the timeline and the lack of resources the government has at the moment.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

I have one last question for you. It's about using epost to provide documentation online.

Should the original documentation be provided only upon request? In other words, throughout the process, only copies would be provided. If necessary, at the end, original documentation would be provided, for example, at the interview.

[Usman Mahmood]

Certainly, as for the original documentation and the verification of it, I highly doubt how much that helps given the current system and how things are being processed with the fast-paced nature of the business.

I don't think that the original is such a huge deal, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Mahmood. The time is up.

We will now move on to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you have six minutes for your round of questioning.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and to all of the witnesses for your presentations.

I'm going to go first to Mr. de Chastelain.

With respect to students—particularly international students whose postgrad work permits are coming to expiration or may have expired—given that we're in a COVID environment, many of them may not be able to secure employment to meet the requirements to apply for permanent residency. What do you think the government should do? Should it automatically provide an extension to these students?

[Bryn de Chastelain]

I think that would definitely be one option.

I think that postgraduate work permits are extremely technical. To be safe, I'd be happy to provide comments to the committee in writing to make sure that there are details that are being included and considered. I think the bottom line is that many international students have struggled to meet the requirements needed for a postgraduate work permit, whether they've been studying abroad in their home country and thinking that they'd be unable to count certain parts of their degree towards that work permit, or struggling to be able to secure Canadian employment opportunities that would satisfy requirements.

I think an extension would go a long way in terms of providing some flexibility for international students, especially at a time when we have to consider that the primary concern for most students right now is the health of themselves and their families, and ensuring that they can start to set up their lives and their careers. I think an extension could go a long way towards supporting that, and I'd be happy to provide some detailed comments on that as well.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

It would be very helpful if you could provide additional information.

For the students who are already here, whose postgrad work permit may be expiring or has expired, because their work permit is not allowed to be renewed, and given their situation, they basically have no choice but to leave the country. That would mean that Canada would lose all of the talent we have with these students.

Are you aware of any students who might have had their work permits expire or whose permits are about to expire?

[Bryn de Chastelain]

I can tell you that at my home institution here in Halifax, I am aware of a few students I've met throughout my degree who have gone home and are not planning on coming back to Canada based on complications around their postgrad work permits. It's similar to the examples that you've mentioned. I think there are a number of concerns here in terms of the decisions that international students or recent graduates are making at this time, in terms of what the impact is going to be on Canada's ability to retain these students.

I think the disappointing component of all of this is that many international students, the vast majority that I've had the pleasure of knowing, would like to be able to stay in the communities that they're studying in or to stay in Canada more broadly. I think the example that you're raising is definitely something that we've heard of, and it's disappointing in terms of what it's going to mean for the future of those students and potentially the loss for the country, as well.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

One of the things the minister said repeatedly was that no one would be impacted with their work permits and they would not be deported because of COVID. I put this question to both the minister and the deputy last week, to see whether or not they would indeed be willing to extend the work permit for post-grad students in this set of circumstances. There seemed to be some indication that they're looking into it. If you come across anyone whose work permit may be expiring or has expired, I think it would be very important that they reach out to the government and perhaps to their member of Parliament to ensure that there are provisions for them to be able to stay in Canada. I get it that some people might have left already, but there may be others who might not have left and are caught out in this situation right now. It's important for the government to hear from these individuals so that we can find a path forward for them.

If I may, I'd like to turn to you, Mr. Mahmood, on the parents and grandparents sponsorship. You're absolutely right that there are no other immigration streams in which people's ability to reunite with their loved ones is based on the luck of the draw. It's really shocking to me that this is where we're at with this application. Now, of course, in the face of COVID, and even without COVID, the high threshold on the financial requirements is very taxing. It means that you can only reunite with your loved ones if you have the ability to pay. That just strikes me as wrong.

In your personal set of circumstances, you were saying that with the sponsorship of your parents, you've been able to get in a sponsorship lottery, and you'll be waiting for at least six months before you hear from the government on what the next process is. Did I hear you correctly on that?

[Usman Mahmood]

No. As far as my personal circumstance is concerned, it's actually my mother. She is not a British citizen or a Canadian citizen, and because of that, she needed a visa to come to Canada. She's applied for it, but the current wait time, if you go on the IRCC website, is about six to nine months, if I'm not wrong. That keeps changing every day.

I think that's really long in the current circumstances, especially for family reunification.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I see. I'm sorry, I thought you meant you actually had a lottery. I gather you don't have a lottery, then.

[Usman Mahmood]

I'm not that lucky.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

How long have you been waiting to try to reunite with your mom?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan, but your time is up.

We will now move to our second round of questioning. Based on the time we have left for this panel, we will have four minutes each for Mr. Saroya and Mr. Dhaliwal and two minutes each for Ms. Kwan and Madam Normandin.

Mr. Saroya, you can start. You have four minutes for your round of questioning.

Mr. Saroya, you are on mute.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You're right. I was on mute.

Am I good now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Watts, racism is a dirty word. People like me, who came here back in the 1970s, have gone through the racism you talk about on the east coast. I have seen it in recent months in Markham—Unionville. I'll tell you about one incident. A 57-year-old Caucasian man was yelling at an Asian kid, “You're bringing the disease to this country.” A passerby intervened. The 57-year-old man noted that adult's licence number, and as soon as the adult passed by, he scratched the person's car.

I have done town hall meetings. I have done many, many other things. What do you think can be done? It's never acceptable. It was never acceptable in the past. It's never acceptable today. What can we do, Ms. Watts? What would you like to see us do? How can we stand up to these thugs?

[Jennifer Watts]

It was great to hear about the secretariat of the federal government and its work, and understanding also what provincial governments are doing, but I think the very big thing is for all of us to understand our role and responsibility. There are many, many actions that need to be taking place. I think it's important that there's funding to support and empower groups who are experiencing this racism, so that they are able to speak their truth and talk about what that experience has been. I think it takes just a huge, huge education effort on the part of all of us, wherever we may be working.

Here in Nova Scotia, I've been working with some folks in Halifax and with other provincial partners on a positive messaging campaign—not waiting for the negativity and not always being on the back foot and having to respond, but being very proactive in supporting communities that welcome people and bring them together, and speak about that positivity. I say this because if we're always dealing from a negative starting point, that is giving too much power away.

I guess there's a variety of things we need to be doing and be engaged in, and federal support and funding, particularly for groups that are directly impacted, is key.