Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was applications.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Usman Mahmood  Barrister and Solicitor, As an Individual
Bryn de Chastelain  President, Saint Mary's University Student Association
Jennifer Watts  Chief Executive Officer, Immigrant Services Association of Nova Scotia
Marian Campbell Jarvis  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Leif-Erik Aune
Daniel Mills  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Campbell Jarvis, for your presentation.

I'm going to continue with the PGP, the parents and grandparents program. If I recall, prior to 2015 when the Conservatives were in power, 5,000 applications were taken. It was first-come, first-served, and people sometimes had to line up for weeks before the application deadline in Mississauga. Therefore, people with more money and easy accessibility had a chance to cut into the line and get to those 5,000 applications.

Since then, when we came forward, if I look at the average number of applications that your department—or the government—has promised to accept, it is accepting four times more applications. Could you give me the difference between the system in 2015 and the system now?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

I would have to look back at the precise numbers, but the member is correct. The parents and grandparents program has certainly been through a number of different iterations. We have tried a number of different approaches, and the demand for the program has always been quite significant and continues to grow as people seek to bring parents and grandparents with them. We can return with some of the numbers to show that pattern, and I can follow up.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

In terms of its accessibility and responsible program management, do you see any differences between then and now, or would you come back on that one as well?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

I could come back with further details on some of the structure and the approach if that is helpful.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Thank you.

When the minister was here he mentioned that the departmental capacity went from 38% to 90%. What choices had to be made to make sure that our immigration system could still function along the crucial lines of business?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Thank you. I'll turn to Mr. Mills.

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

Thank you. I will answer the question.

What made it possible for us to increase the processing capacity of our employees from 38% to 90%, is the fact that we provided them with all the equipment they need to work from home. As you know, at the beginning of the pandemic, our priority was to ensure the health and safety of our employees. In order to do that, we had to provide them with the technology they needed at home. That was one of the things that allowed us to increase our processing capacity in the subsequent months. We also provided our employees with training. In addition, we have developed processes that are much more linear and that mean that some files can be digitized, in order to make remote processing easier.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Thank you.

First of all, I'm very grateful to the IRCC employees, whether they are in Montreal or anywhere else, because our office is considered the busiest in all of Canada. Thank you for that.

One problem that we are facing right now is that when the people fill out their application, it is not necessarily lawyers or experts who fill in the applications. It is someone else who fills it in for them and they forget to answer just one tick mark or question: Have you ever been rejected for a visa by any other country? Then they forget to tick that, because it wasn't Canada; it might be England, Australia or the U.S.A. It was my understanding that the department brought in a policy that a minor error or mistake like that would not result in their getting a five-year ban, but I still see many of those applications being given a five-year ban. Would you comment on that, the policy moving forward and how we can resolve that particular little mistake on the application form without penalizing those candidates.

December 7th, 2020 / 4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Thank you. That's a really important question into how we're processing. I'm going to ask Mr. Mills to answer how we're handling that and, in particular, how during COVID we've made some adjustments, which he will tell you about.

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

During the pandemic, we established various procedures so that we were not returning forms that were missing information. We don't return the forms and we don't reject any application because documents or pieces of information are missing. Certainly, processing deadlines will be—

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I am sorry for interrupting, Mr. Mills, but the time is up.

We will now move on to Madame Normandin, who has six minutes for her round of questioning.

You may please proceed.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Let me take this opportunity to thank the senior officials once more. Not only is this the third time that they have testified before us, but they also provide us with clear responses each time. They give us a lot of information about what is happening. That allows us to provide our constituents with better answers and explanations. In some cases it may even be a salve for their impatience.

That leads me to my first question. Do you believe that, in the future, it would be a good thing for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to be more transparent as to what is going on in the department? There might even be a way to use members of Parliament to communicate information better.

One example comes to mind. In one go, 60,000 applications came in on IMM 0006 forms on October 8 and 9. That is a lot. Perhaps you were not expecting it. If we had been in the loop from the beginning, perhaps we would have been able to explain the situation to our constituents better, and lower their expectations as a result.

Do you think that it would be a good idea, in the future, if we were more in the loop and if there were a little more transparency about the various issues that IRCC is dealing with?

4:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Thank you for the question.

I really like the spirit behind that question.

We are pleased and proud to appear before the committee for a third time. We try to provide clear and transparent information.

We have a lot of respect for the role of Parliament and of all its members. I hope that the information we are providing to you will be of assistance to the committee in the next stages of its study. I personally am looking forward to reading the committee's report and recommendations.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

Speaking of recommendations, I would like to know what you are hoping for from our study. Basically, there can be two distinct ways of going about it. Would it be more useful for your work if parliamentarians drafted the broad strokes of the objectives to be achieved, or if we focused a little more specifically on what should change at IRCC? Perhaps you would like it to be a bit of both.

For example, section 179(b) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations has come up in discussion. If we say that section 179(b) must be amended, that is a specific objective. If we say that issuing visas must be made easier in general, that's a broader objective.

Which of those approaches would you prefer?

4:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

Really, we are interested in what the committee deemed useful and look forward to reading the report and the findings. In the meantime, we hope to the best of our ability that we've been able to convey the innovation, the effort and the adaptation that IRCC has undertaken throughout the pandemic to better respond to our clients.

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

The committee has often suggested that moving to an online system would help matters in the future. It would also have been of great assistance during the crisis.

In general, what is your level of confidence with implementing an online system? How long could that take? Basically, are we to expect all areas of IRCC activity to be supported by an online system?

Can you give us an idea of your intentions, in terms of migrating to a digital system?

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

There's a lot of dynamism at play in the system, both in terms of travel as well as the IRCC system.

I will turn to my colleague, Mr. Mills, for additional information on that subject.

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

Yes, indeed, we would really like to have an integrated digital, electronic process at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

As Ms. Normandin mentioned, during the pandemic, having to handle a lot of documents and applications on paper did limit our capacity to process them quickly. We were forced to adapt. As the deputy minister mentioned last week, we have started to digitize some files so that we can process those applications virtually, anywhere in the world.

We are certainly examining that possibility for various areas of IRCC activity. We are working very hard to make sure that we have systems that will allow us to process all the different applications using computerized and electronic processes, in the short, medium and long terms.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you. The time is up.

We will now move on to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please proceed.

5 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I know that some witnesses suggested the idea of a weighted system for the parents and grandparents lottery. I just want to point out that back in 2017, for example, when the lottery system first was introduced, 100,000 people submitted their interest to apply. If we go to a weighted system, and because there are only so many slots, you could theoretically create a scenario where only the people who apply would be able to enter the draw. That means there would be no new applications that would be allowed for submission.

I appreciate the sentiment, but, really, the best option going forward, in my view, is to make sure that there is no cap. Otherwise, you effectively go back to the previous system that the Conservatives did—basically, capping the number of applications with the weighted system—and I don't think that's really what we want to achieve.

I'd like to ask the officials this question. Last year, 68,800 spouses, common-law partners and children were admitted to Canada, and this year the minister's target is 49,000 decisions for the same stream. Does that mean that...? Could the officials advise us on whether this 49,000 includes both negative and positive decisions?

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marian Campbell Jarvis

I'll turn to Mr. Mills to respond to that on the decision-making piece.

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

It means that IRCC officers will have made final decisions on 49,000 applications by December 31.

5 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Those are positive decisions only then.

5 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

I will have to confirm that information for the committee later, if I may, but, as I understand it, it means 40,000 decisions, either positive or negative.

5 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Okay, thank you. That will make a difference, whether or not they are positive or negative, because otherwise it would mean that the overall number of admissions would likely be lower if it includes negative decisions as well.

I wonder if the officials know the percentage of the applications in the system that are being processed right now that are inland applications versus outland applications.