Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Jan. 27th, 2021

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Ms. Go.

Several of the committee members, including yourself, outlined that many of the activists are not recently educated and have not worked in Canada. I think you outlined this really well. This impacts blue-collar workers. Joshua Wong, a very famous pro-democracy activist, is, I believe, facing perhaps five years in prison.

Can you outline again what the Government of Canada should be considering? I think what you've mentioned really limits it to almost an elite group of people who will make Canada the most money if they come here. It ignores all these blue-collar workers. Could you just expand on your thoughts on that?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

Sure. For instance, they are saying that you can come here as a student. That's true, but if you come here as a student, they expect you to pay the international student tuition fee. I'm sure a lot of these individuals, including some of the 12- and 13-year-olds who were arrested last year, may not have the money to do so. That option is just not open to them. If they can somehow make their way here, they still have to finish high school and then university before they qualify for that open work permit program for post-university students.

I think it's important to recognize that if these are activists, they leave Hong Kong because of their political beliefs, and we should treat these people almost as asylum seekers. Then, rather than going through the refugee determination process, we have another way. I think what the previous two panellists mentioned, and what Ms. Kwan also mentioned in the last panel—having some kind of program similar to the one that was in place after the Tiananmen Square massacre—would be good as well. You'd basically allow the Hong Kong nationals to apply for permanent resident status in Canada.

I'm not so sure—I'm sorry, Mr. Li—about the requirement for them to sign a declaration. Certainly you can do a security check on these individuals. Just because they may not have.... They might be in a situation where speaking out could put them at risk, so I think it's important that we think carefully before we impose that kind of requirement on applicants.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Ms. Go.

We have just a few seconds left. I wanted you to comment, if you could, on the Hong Kong government saying they have to renounce either their Canadian citizenship or their Chinese citizenship. What impact is that going to have on folks there?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

We know that some of the Canadian citizens who have moved back to Hong Kong have given up their citizenship in the past, especially those who wanted to seek electoral office in Hong Kong. What we're worried about, however, is the Chinese government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry for interrupting, Ms. Go, but your time is up. Maybe you will find another opportunity.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Ms. Go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Dancho.

We will now move to Ms. Dhillon.

Ms. Dhillon, you have six minutes for your round of questioning. You can start, please.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you to the witnesses for coming in and waiting as long as they did to testify and speak with us on this very important question.

My first question, for all three of you, is on the measures that are presented by our government. Do you believe there are areas for improvement with regard to what has been proposed? I think it would be very helpful to us if you can give us some best practices or any ideas of things we can improve. Thank you so much.

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

Maybe I'll go first. I would suggest that the open work permit, which is currently reserved for people with post-secondary degrees, be made open to anyone from Hong Kong. Of course, we may not want 12-year-olds working in Canada, but there may be other people who want to come here to work and to seek refuge but don't have university degrees. Just with that alone, I think it will open the door to many more people.

[Guillaume Cliche-Rivard]

As I already said, broadening the definition of the family class could also be a very good solution for people who initially or fundamentally do now qualify. So Canada could allow that broadening and better qualifications.

Authorities could also do better in terms of refugee protection. In fact, many people are waiting to be resettled in Canada. That must be done very quickly, through a temporary resident permit, or TRP. The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act allows this. It is very important.

It is a matter of opening the door, of reducing as much as possible the wait time on Hong Kong soil and, perhaps, granting temporary residence permits as quickly as possible, so that people can not only come to Canada as visitors, but more importantly work there, be integrated and be safe again as quickly as possible.

Thank you.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Mr. Cliche-Rivard, do you think the measures our government has taken will be effective for people who want to come to Canada on a temporary or a permanent basis?

[Guillaume Cliche-Rivard]

It all depends on individuals' situations, but it is certain that coming to the country with a temporary status and waiting a long time for permanent residence is difficult for everyone. Everyone must make a living, be quickly integrated and have the assurance that they will remain safe. I think it is important to finalize files as quickly as possible. The more quickly permanent residence is granted, the more quickly people can know they can be safe with their family.

This could also avoid the doubling of the number of procedures such as applications for visas, TRPs or permanent residence. The quicker the residence confirmation and the more those people can work and contribute to society, the better it is for Canada.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Very well. Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Li. Can you give us an understanding of the current situation for residents of Hong Kong and the reaction they're having to the Canadian measures that were taken on the ground? Maybe from people you're connected with, you can give some feedback to the committee regarding that. Thank you so much.

[Eric Li]

Can I go?

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Yes, the question was addressed to you.

[Eric Li]

Okay. Actually, I'll go back to the first question. I think that right now we have a good refugee sponsorship program, but it's like the chicken and the egg: We will never get the refugees because there's nobody to certify the refugees in Hong Kong or a nearby country. There's no UNHCR there, and the Canadian consulate staff are not doing that. That's why one of our suggestions is that if we can identify refugees from Hong Kong from abroad, then we can use the existing refugee sponsorship program to sponsor Hong Kongers to come here.

I echo all the comments from my fellow witnesses. I think those are grave concerns, especially when the elected officials from Hong Kong all gave up their Canadian citizenship. I think we should have some way that lets them reinstate their citizenship and then come back here, because the situation in Hong Kong is really hostile.

They usually try to arrest you with harassment. They will come to your house at 6 a.m. and then put you.... Actually, they've been detained for more than 36 hours. I think a couple of them have. Even a 71-year-old barrister from Hong Kong was detained for 44 hours in a cold cell. He's really old already, but they still tried to harass him. When they cannot find the right law to prosecute somebody, they will just use the national security law.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Li. Your time is up.

[Eric Li]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now move onto Madame Normandin.

Madame Normandin, you have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please proceed.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I thank the three witnesses for their presentation and their recommendations.

My first question is for Mr. Cliche-Rivard. As everyone said, the current government programs are very restrictive and are not really targeting a large part of the population. I am talking about work permit or study permit programs that potentially lead to permanent residence.

For those who manage to leave their country without getting arrested by Chinese authorities and to set foot on Canadian soil, and who would like to make a claim for refugee protection, what would be the main pitfalls they will face, as far as you know?

[Guillaume Cliche-Rivard]

Right now, it is very difficult, as there are major issues with the consideration of the eligibility of refugee protection claims filed at ports of entry or inside Canada. It takes a long time for the famous refugee protection claimant document to be issued and for a work permit to be obtained.

More particularly in the case of claims filed on Canadian soil, a very long wait time puts people in situations of considerable vulnerability. So telling them they can come and simply claim refugee protection here, in the current context, is very problematic. A major effort must be made to accelerate the interviews to determine claim eligibility, as some files dating back to March 2020 have still not been processed. So there is nearly a year of waiting before certain files that give access to work permits are processed. That's certainly an important element.

Then, once the refugee protection claim has been received, within two to three years from the arrival in Canada, if it is accepted, people must still wait two more years to obtain permanent residence. So that brings the total wait time to four to five years, which is excessively long for someone who wants to bring their family to Canada and know whether they will be safe over the long term.

I think solutions must be found so that status can be granted quickly, as a number of people are facing the real possibility of having to return to their country.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Go, Mr. Li, do you want to add anything?

[Avvy Yao-Yao Go]

Madam Chair, I would like to add to that.

I think one of the biggest challenges is whether or not they can actually enter Canada because of the travel ban. For instance, we are working with a number of activists who are stranded in the U.K. They managed to leave Hong Kong and that's the first country they were able to get to. They can't even come to Canada right now.

Those who actually managed to come here are the lucky ones. In fact, the process has been relatively quick, compared to the normal refugee determination process for the Hong Kong asylum seekers, but the fact that they can't come in is one big problem. That's why we have been pushing for having some kind of temporary resident permits for these individuals to come here. At least they'll be safe, and then, hopefully, we will have some kind of pathway for them to get permanent resident status.

[Eric Li]

I just want to add to that.

A number of study visas have been rejected by the Hong Kong consulate office, because if they think the person will stay in Canada after their studies, they would not qualify. That defeats the purpose of our current lifeboat. We want people to come to study and then get a job and stay here, so I hope those consulate staff will be more accommodating to all these study applications, especially in regard to the age limit. Some people might go back to their MBA program, or something, when they are 40 or 50 years old, so I don't think we should set any age limit on those study programs or those special measures that we have right now.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is about confirmations of permanent residence. We can assume that a number of people currently in Hong Kong have already received their confirmation of permanent residence, but as of March 18. So they face travel restrictions.

Should travel restrictions be lifted specifically for Hong Kong residents who have received their permanent residence confirmation?