Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 1st, 2021

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I just want to specify something.

When we prepared the first list of witnesses, I had submitted only one. However, unless I'm mistaken, I was entitled to 1.4 witnesses. Adding 0.6, I would give me a total of two witnesses. I could then submit a new witness who would automatically be on the list.

Am I mistaken?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Madam Normandin.

I would suggest that if everyone can submit their list, I will work with the clerk, based on the breakdown, the representation of parties we have, to make sure that everyone gets their fair share of witnesses. I will work on that with Mr. Clerk and let you know. I would not like to waste the time allocated for the witnesses today.

Ms. Dancho.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to suggest to my opposition colleagues that I'm happy to work on a joint witness list with Bloc and NDP members if they so wish. I'm happy to connect about that if they'd like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just have a suggestion about the distribution of the six new witnesses that the clerk mentioned. The Liberals and Conservatives have almost the same number of seats. So I propose two witnesses for the Liberals, two for the Conservatives, one for the Bloc Québécois and one for the NDP.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Serré.

What I would propose after listening to everyone is that, at least based on what the clerk said, send in the names and then we can work together to make sure that everyone has representation, which is based on the number of seats we have. We will work on that. In the earlier list there was also a lot of overlap. Once the list is submitted, we can go through that.

Before we start today's meeting I would just like to update everyone in regard to the meeting that will be happening on Wednesday. All of you must have seen that there are three or maybe—I was getting the news from the clerk today—four votes on Wednesday. What I would propose is that, for the second panel that we cancelled today, we do it on Wednesday, because if we have four votes I don't think we can start before five o'clock. The voting will be through Zoom and not the app. I would propose that the panel we have cancelled today we hold on Wednesday, and after that we will schedule two hours of panels for the next CIMM committee.

Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I hear that we may have five votes on Wednesday. If that's the case, I don't think we'll be able to have the committee meeting that day because of the current format.

I wanted to bring it to the attention of the committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Serré, for updating me that there are five votes. It can take us up to five hours of voting after three o'clock, so that might be too late. I will work with the clerk to determine once we have the confirmation of the number of the votes. Accordingly I will work with the clerk and inform everyone in time on what the plan will be for Wednesday's meeting.

I would like to welcome our witnesses, but before I go into that I just want to let everyone know I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants in this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. With the latest Zoom version, you may now speak in the language of your choice without the need to select the corresponding language channel.

You will also notice that the platform's “raise hand” feature is now in a more easily accessible location on the main toolbar should you wish to speak or alert the chair. For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person or in a committee room. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those of you in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

I will remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking your microphone should be on mute. With regard to the speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members whether they are participating virtually or in person.

With that I would like to welcome our witnesses for today's meeting. We have three witnesses. We have Cherie Wong, executive director of Alliance Canada Hong Kong. The second witness is Brian Wong, reverend, from Mustard Seeds Hong Kong Concern Group, and as an individual, we have Dominic Tse, pastor.

Welcome, everyone. Thanks a lot for appearing before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration today. I would welcome all of the witnesses and request that Ms. Cherie Wong please start.

Ms. Wong, you have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Cherie Wong, Executive Director, Alliance Canada Hong Kong]

Good afternoon.

My name is Cherie Wong. I extend my thanks for the opportunity to appear before the committee today. I follow this committee’s work closely.

Witnesses before me have spoken about the immigration measures that only appeal to a small group of post-secondary graduates from Hong Kong or international students in Canada. I share similar concerns over the narrow reach of the new policies.

Canada’s approach to Hong Kong’s ongoing crisis fails to consider the realities of everyday people of Hong Kong.

The national security bureau has been carrying out systematic surveillance and clandestine operations, including plainclothes officers at airports, loitering inside international terminals and boarding areas. We have friends whose travel documents are confiscated, teammates who are monitored and scared for their lives, and fellow activists who are arrested before they can leave. The Hong Kong government is even looking at legislation to impose exit bans and further suppress freedom of movement.

This is not a conventional humanitarian crisis, so conventional solutions are not effective for those who need our help.

Last week, IRCC suggested that Hong Kongers can apply through existing programs such as family reunification, express entry and UNHCR. These programs might appeal to middle upper-class migrants, but are not accessible for most Hong Kongers. Most Hong Kongers do not qualify for travel exemptions under the current border restrictions, and many activists cannot leave, as their travel documents are confiscated and exit visas denied.

For immigration programs that rely on points systems, our team assessed various profiles of well-known activists, and none would have high enough scores to be successful under recent draws based on their socio-economic status, age or professional history. Most programs request a police check and biometric data, but the Hong Kong Police Force has carried out arbitrary mass arrests and many have a criminal record. A police check can also be used to inform the authorities of the activist's intention to leave the city. Even if Hong Kongers qualify, they do not have the capacity, resources or luxury to be stuck in bureaucratic processes in these pathways.

I cannot stress this enough: Canada’s conventional immigration and asylum pathways are failing Hong Kongers. We need a cohesive resettlement strategy that puts Hong Kong’s deteriorating situation into consideration.

Hong Kong’s political opposition has been decimated. The network of activists has been severely compromised. Persecution under the NSL has manifested indirectly through regulations at various social, political, legal and judicial sectors: loyalty oaths at the civil service and district councils; banning of TV shows, textbooks and websites; firing of teachers and union activists; and even biometric data for professional registration.

We expect the Chinese and Hong Kong governments to shift attention to every citizen who has participated in protests, voted in the democratic primaries or even posted on social media. Time is running out.

We have submitted a written brief to the committee, outlining our recommendations.

First, create a dedicated pathway for those fleeing persecution, allowing Hong Kongers to apply for travel documents directly from overseas, with the ability to waive border restrictions.

Second, modify existing private sponsorship or family reunification measures to enable extended family members and activists to resettle in Canada.

Third, modernize and expedite the Canadian immigration and asylum system to address the backlog of new and pending claims.

Fourth, create a clear, strategic communications plan to combat misinformation and promote various existing pathways for Hong Kongers.

Fifth, release a plan to support Canadians and their families in Hong Kong. Restore citizenship and permanent residence status, and expedite PR pathways for extended family members.

These are not stand-alone recommendations but are meant to work together to create a comprehensive strategy that addresses the diverse needs and maximizes accessibility for Hong Kongers to settle in Canada. All of these recommendations should be inclusive of individuals from Hong Kong who might not hold a BNO or HKSAR passport.

Thank you, all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Wong.

We will now move on to Mr. Wong.

Mr. Wong, you have the floor. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Brian Wong, Reverend, Mustard Seeds Hong Kong Concern Group]

Thank you for the opportunity to share our presentation on behalf of the Mustard Seeds Hong Kong Concern Group. I am Reverend Brian Wong. Our group is concerned with Hong Kong and has multi-denominational Christian members.

I would like to comment on the Canadian government's new immigration measures in response to the deterioration of human rights in Hong Kong under the national security law. This is a very encouraging start, showing Canada's commitment to protect the safety of the Hong Kong people, who share the same core values as we do, as well as the 300,000 Canadians residing in Hong Kong.

Given the unprecedented mass arrests of pro-democracy activists on all fronts since the imposition of the national security law and the diversity of Hong Kong participants in the pro-democracy movement in terms of age groups and professional and educational backgrounds, Canada needs to come up with a more inclusive policy to accommodate the needs of a broad spectrum of Hong Kong people under risk of political persecution. Our core objective is to save the lives of Hong Kong people based on the level of their risk of political persecution, not just the age, educational or professional background, or the socio-economic status of the applicants. Immigration measures should apply to prioritized categories in accordance with the level of political persecution.

First, prioritized categories should include high-risk activists whose passports have been confiscated and Canadian residents or citizens who were forced to surrender their Canadian status when they ran for office in the Legislative Council or the District Court council. Apart from the pro-democracy activists, it looks like certain sectors have been the targets of crackdowns by the Hong Kong SAR government. These include social workers, journalists, teachers, medical workers and pastors.

For these categories of people under high risk of political persecution, we urge the government to offer them special travel documents to allow them to depart from Hong Kong at the earliest possible time before they are arrested, convicted and imprisoned. We should also consider offering them the “essential traveller” status under coronavirus pandemic guidelines to allow them to cross the Canadian border under the above special circumstances.

With the restrictive implementation of the nationality law in Hong Kong, BNO passport and Canadian passport holders have been denied the right to exit from Hong Kong unless they officially surrender their Chinese nationality. We urge the government to follow up on the impact of the nationality law on the status of the 300,000 Canadians in Hong Kong, as well as the 200,000-plus Canadians who have been residing in Hong Kong without claiming non-resident status. We wonder how the Canadian government could provide consular protection to them in case of need.

Second, the applications of Hong Kongers who are currently in Canada seeking political asylum should be processed in an expedited manner, with a pathway to permanent resident status.

Third, Hong Kongers studying or working in Canada who will be subject to political persecution when they return to Hong Kong because of their involvement in the Hong Kong pro-democracy movement in Canada should be offered a five-year visa with an expedited pathway to permanent resident status.

For Hong Kongers—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Reverend Wong, I'm sorry for interrupting, but your time is up. You will get the opportunity to talk further once we go into the round of questioning.

With that, I now request that Pastor Tse, our third witness, please begin. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Rev. Dominic Tse, Pastor, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Honourable members of the committee, my name is Dominic Tse. I came to Canada as a teenager. I was 17 at the time. I have been here over 40 years. I love Canada and I think like a Canadian in most cases, but I also love Hong Kong.

I think the members of this committee all agree that the Hong Kong situation is a crisis, and it is a crisis that calls for bold and swift actions. Our conventional tools are not very effective right now.

We have the asylum systems, but the people being persecuted cannot leave Hong Kong because their passports have been confiscated. I know young people who are in the court system, and it's being dragged out for months and years, basically forcing them to confess and plead guilty and go to prison, with hefty sentences. This is the game that the Hong Kong government, under Beijing's rule, is playing, so our conventional asylum system is not working.

Also, there are people who have participated in demonstrations who cannot leave. They want to leave. Right now, of course, with the pandemic and other things, we have tools, but many people cannot leave. Mind you, it's not only young people who are demonstrating. We have middle-aged people, 40 or 50 years of age, who go into the streets. The two million people comprise not just young people but a lot of people. Many people in Hong Kong want to leave.

Britain has now swung open the doors and two million or three million BNO holders can go there, providing lifeboats and a safe destination. I think Hong Kong requires more lifeboats and more safe destinations, and I believe Canada is a good destination. In fact, many Hong Kong people have relatives, friends or classmates in Canada. If they have a choice, they would actually rather go to Canada than the U.K. I love the U.K., but I have a lot of friends who simply like Canada's weather better than the U.K.'s because we have more variety and so on.

Canada must act quickly and boldly to offer more lifeboats and a choice for these lifeboats to go to. Canada's system has been doing some things, such as allowing students to stay, but I think we should do some catch-up. It's not just a humanitarian crisis. It's also a challenge for Canada to attract all those good, hard-working people: smart, educated, professional people who want to leave Hong Kong and want to come to Canada. They might not have $100 million or something, but they will be major citizens who can build this country better. I think Canada can do something quickly.

I am proposing in my brief that we do a three-plus-two system, giving a lot of people work permits so that they can come here to a safe Canada and apply for whatever they want to do. It's the same concept as the BNO system. We don't have a BNO, but we can have them come in, using a work permit for three years, and then they can apply. The advantage of it is that it provides security in a shorter time so that people can come and then start applying to the process. With this thinking, we don't need to change the immigration policy or system.

I have talked to an immigration lawyer who is a friend of mine, who is an expert in the field, and she says we should not create a special immigration policy just for Hong Kong. The thinking is that we don't change the door—the door is the same—we just create more lineups, different pathways to come in. People go through the same door, but we allow them to come quickly, once the pandemic is over, when restrictions are probably lifted and people can come on a work permit and then can proceed to apply to different programs.

That would include a lot of people. People who have been in demonstrations who have not been arrested yet but are fearful, they can come. People who might not qualify under the normal circumstances can come with a work permit, and once they gather the work experience, they might be able to apply. They can come to school, and so on.

Canada, in facing this humanitarian crisis and a competition crisis, must act quickly and boldly.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Pastor Tse, for your opening remarks.

Now we will move on to our first round of questioning. We will start with Ms. Dancho.

Ms. Dancho, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I will go to Cherie Wong.

Cherie, you and I have met before. I want to ask about your perspective on the recent developments. We've learned that the Hong Kong government is looking to enforce its decades-old law that denies dual citizenship. We learned in The Globe and Mail on Saturday from Steve Chase that Ottawa has learned that a Hong Kong resident who had a Canadian passport was imprisoned and was asked to choose whether he was a Chinese or a Canadian citizen. That of course has impacts upon his consular access and things such as that.

I'm wondering what you've heard on the ground. Are people concerned about this? What kinds of impacts do you think it will have, should the Hong Kong authorities begin enforcing their old law?

[Cherie Wong]

This tactic has been used by the Chinese government in China to deny consular access to activists or sensitive prisoners. It is thus no surprise for Hong Kong to see this type of threat.

From what I know, the process to officially renounce one's citizenship is quite complex and requires an individual to personally visit the consulate to hand in a form. Formally we don't really have to worry, because if an individual is going into a Canadian consulate, there is a certain level of free will there. However, the Canadian government needs to take action to advocate for dual citizens and also maybe consider putting out public announcements about how an individual must go about renouncing their citizenship, if there is any information relating to individuals who are under duress requesting to renounce their citizenship.

In general, I think this is a rising concern and that Canada needs to keep a close eye on the issue.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I appreciate that.

Last week at the committee we had the chance to question immigration officials. As you know, the minister announced the original Hong Kong policy support from Canada on November 12. Then on November 16, we were able to question officials at the Canada-China committee, and it was there that we confirmed with immigration officials that the open work permit would be launched by the end of 2020.

Last week the officials admitted to us that this in fact did not happen. Is this being communicated to folks in Hong Kong? Are they anticipating that these things are being launched when they're not? What has been their reaction so far?

[Cherie Wong]

We have been getting many questions from Hong Kongers asking about the program and when it will be launched. I personally am not sure of the timeline, but I think there's a huge issue with understaffing at the IRCC.

I would like to see the Canadian government put in a few more staff members, whether for delivering the new measure for Hong Kongers or for the asylum or immigration passports.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

It seems to be an ongoing problem with all immigration streams. It was disappointing to hear, given that they announced a very limited scope for the policies for Hong Kong and then failed to launch this one in particular, for the open work permit, when they promised to do so.

Another question I had was regarding the second of your five proposals, regarding family reunification of extended family members. The minister and immigration officials in the fall indicated that the grandparents and parents lottery—of course, for Hong Kong parents of those residing in Canada—could apply. When we asked how many Hong Kong grandparents and parents had been successful applicants, they didn't have an answer just yet.

I'm wondering whether you felt that the grandparents and parents lottery was sufficient for family reunification for those with parents and grandparents residing in Hong Kong.

[Cherie Wong]

It is a necessary measure, but it's insufficient. It only lets some into Canada for 90 days, which is really not that much.

I think we also need to look beyond the western definition of family members. For Hong Kongers, our cousins and uncles are just as close, and we need to extend that family reunification to extended family members who may not be considered traditional family, as well as remove the lottery system for Hong Kong families, because there is definitely a growing danger of being in Hong Kong.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

I appreciate that.

I was intrigued by your fifth one. You mentioned this a little in your remarks throughout, about better communication from the Canadian government. Where should they be communicating this message, so that Hong Kong Canadians both at home and in Hong Kong are receiving proper updates from the Government of Canada? Where should they be looking for it?

[Cherie Wong]

I know many currently rely on the IRCC website, which is only available in English and French. For Hong Kongers, while many of us learned English growing up, it's definitely not our first language. I think many Hong Kongers would appreciate it if we could have Cantonese-focused communication on the website as well. I know that the consulate does a lot of the promotional work, so if there is different language access, that would be a huge help.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

That's a great idea, given the audience that those pathways and announcements are supposed to address. I hope that's something that ends up in the report and that the minister hears. I think it would be a fairly easy change to make, given that we have many excellent officials in the immigration department. I think that would make sense, given the audience, so I appreciate that.

I believe that's all my time, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Wong, for your comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Dancho.

We will now move on to Madam Martinez Ferrada.

Madam Martinez Ferrada, you have six minutes for your round of questioning.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Wong, Mr. Wong and Mr. Tse, thank you for being with us.

My question is for all three of you. Could you help us to understand the situation in Hong Kong before the government measures were announced?

You also talked a bit about current programs and how they could be expanded or simplified. I'd like to hear more about that.

What specific measures do you think should be taken to simplify and expand the process so that it is easier for Hong Kongers to come to Canada?