Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2021

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses who are providing us with a lot of detailed information, including data, on the current situation.

I would like to ask Ms. Bégin to provide some context.

Ms. Bégin, can you please tell me if you agree with the fact that despite the increase in unemployment during the pandemic, certain industries are still suffering from labour shortages?

[Josée Bégin]

I can partially answer the question.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, we have indeed seen changes in the unemployment rate, which is, of course, influenced by the public health measures put in place. Some industries were hit harder than others, as well as certain segments of the population.

As I explained in my presentation, we started to publish monthly job vacancies in Canada as of October. This allows us to have indicators which, along with the labour force survey, give us an idea of what is going on on the labour market.

A quarterly analysis will be done at the end of March which will be more detailed and will provide more indicators.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Similarily, would you agree that it is almost structurally impossible to hire staff locally, even when unemployment is high in certain job categories?

[Josée Bégin]

Our data shows that labour shortages vary according to the region. There are factors linked to the type of industry, but it is also a question of local skills. That does not mean, however, that for a given industry, labour shortages and the skills required will be the same everywhere. It all depends on where you are in Canada.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Which brings me to my next question, which is about LMIAs.

We know that LMIAs are used, amongst other reasons, to ensure that all efforts were made to find workers locally.

Would you agree that the difficulties in recruitment, when certain jobs remain vacant even though unemployment is high, possibly make people question why LMIAs are required for certain types of jobs or certain regions?

[Caroline Xavier]

I will ask my colleague from ESDC to answer the question.

[Philippe Massé]

I can only tell you that the process for LMIAs, which falls under the remit of ESDC, must be followed and that employers are required to meet certain criteria.

Our department is not able to exempt certain professions. That said, there's nothing to stop employers from making applications to get access to workers. We don't impose any caps, as a rule.

Given the current situation, there are certain caps on the food and accommodation industries. Generally speaking, however, employers do have access to workers and may submit applications. Those applications are approved if they meet the specified criteria.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

My next question is about closed work permits. Some people have stated that they are problematic, especially in terms of labour mobility.

I have an example that illustrates this perfectly. In my riding, when a farmer falls victim to a climate catastrophe and no longer needs his workers, he can't allow them to work on the neighbouring farm, even though that farmer might need those workers to save his crop.

In 2016, the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities recommended abolishing closed work permits and encouraging the use of LMIAs. The committee recommended the use of work permits for certain industries or geographical regions. If there was a huge labour shortage in a given region, the person who had obtained a LMIA would not be required to obtain a closed work permit. Mobility would be enhanced.

What has happened with this recommendation? Is there a willingness to review the need for closed work permits?

[Caroline Xavier]

I thank you for the question, Ms. Normandin.

Given all that we have learned during this difficult year, we have made the process more flexible over the last few months so that the workers that lose their job can find another one. We have processes in place that make it easier to apply for a new permit, so that workers can be hired by another employer.

We have also worked hard to process all the applications that we receive in that category as quickly as possible.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I don't think I have enough time left to ask further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. We will now move on to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to the officials.

The minister didn't answer this question, so I wonder if the officials can advise and confirm that Hong Kongers in the U.K. would be able to come to Canada to seek refugee status, or would they be considered asylum shopping under the recent provisions that the Liberal government has passed?

[Caroline Xavier]

As was stated, we have very grave concerns with what's going on. We are doing all we can to ensure that those who want to make their way to Canada can find various ways in which they can do so. Being able to do it through a means of asylum and seeking refugee to Canada can be done if you're in the U.K. and have not already claimed asylum in the U.K. You can do it by the UNHCR, or there are other various ways in which they can do that. If they are in Canada, they can also seek to do an in-Canada asylum claim.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is there any work being done right now within the department in looking at how to allow for asylum status or refugee claims by Hong Kongers who are abroad and would not be able to go through the UNHCR process?

[Caroline Xavier]

There is more than the UNHCR process. One can also seek to be a privately sponsored refugee. We have more than one way in which you can seek refugee status.

As was mentioned by my colleague, Dr. Giles, if one needs urgent protection, there are other ways in which we can also assist as best as we can in knowing the—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Could the officials table those other ways to the committee so we have the full details on what that process is?

[Caroline Xavier]

That would be my pleasure.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

The government has indicated that it is giving priority to processing applications from Hong Kongers.

Could the officials table current and expected processing times for these applications compared to others in all of the different streams?

The timeline issue is very important given that the Hong Kong legislature is considering pending legislation that would not allow people to get on flights to leave Hong Kong.

[Caroline Xavier]

Yes, we can definitely provide that information should we have it in our holdings. I would also just add that to date, as was mentioned by the minister, we continue to ensure that Hong Kongers know that, especially if they are dual citizens, they can make their way to get the necessary documents to travel to Canada. The mission has made itself available to support those in Hong Kong if that is something they wish to do.

I would add, also, that as was mentioned, we continue to do what we can to process things as quickly and effectively as possible. I just want to mention that to this point in time, we have not seen an uptick in people asking us for additional citizenship documents.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The minister said he's been looking at the issue of the language test for caregivers. What work is being done by the department at this time on this issue? Have officials looked into the feasibility of counting the COVID-interrupted time towards their 24-month work requirements under the caregiver pilots and the issue of the caregivers' children aging out?

[Caroline Xavier]

We continue to learn a lot from the caregiver pilot and to assess how it is going. In terms of your question, we are looking at what the implications could be for those who are in the pilot program right now and for those who may be currently unemployed or have had employment interrupted due to COVID, and whether or not they will be able to meet the timelines that are required for the program. This assessment is something we're continuing to do, including looking at the recommendations you made to our minister with regard to the language requirements. At this time, the pilot is still under way. We're using the results to be able to effectively understand and evolve the program, should doing so be required.

I will also turn to my colleague Marian Campbell Jarvis to see if she has anything further to add to help answer this question.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you Madam Chair.

Perhaps I could add a few details to that response.

With respect to caregivers and the language issue, the pilot does run until 2024. We will be considering next steps.

I would note that—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, but could I just interrupt for one second?

That means that no changes will be made until after 2024. Is that correct?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

That's not exactly what I was implying, Ms. Kwan. That would be a decision and a question for the minister. I was simply noting that to add what Ms. Xavier has noted that we continue to study this as pilot and to assess how things are proceeding.

I would note that with respect to the language requirements, this program does have an almost overabundance of interest by people who are meeting the language requirements now. The program does have very high levels of response.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I just want to note that on this issue, this is a problem not just in the pilot. It's been an ongoing problem with the caregivers. Even in the last Parliament this became an issue on which witnesses came forward and raised their concerns. I just want to highlight that. I hope that the department is moving forward and expediting, making it easier for caregivers. If they are here working already, they are able to communicate with their employer, so why are we layering on so many barriers for them? Especially if they are caregivers doing work, they are not able to take the courses.