Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 12th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

The Board of Internal Economy requires that committee members adhere to the following health protocols: Maintain a physical distance of at least two meters from others; wear a non-medical mask unless seated, and preferably wear a mask at all times, including when seated; maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizers provided in the committee room, and wash your hands regularly with soap. As the Chair, I will enforce these measures. Thank you all for your cooperation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of January 25. I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You may speak in the official language of your choice. At the bottom of your screen, you may choose to hear the floor audio or English or French. With the latest Zoom version, you do not need to select a corresponding language channel before speaking. Your “raise hand” feature is on the main toolbar, should you wish to speak. Remember that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be muted. The committee clerk and I will maintain the list of the members seeking to speak.

Before we begin, I have an important reminder for all members. Members' assistants should please advise the clerk if the House administration has migrated them to the new email account to ensure that they continue to receive all committee email. I know that IT services has been working with different offices to make that change happen, so please let the clerk know.

I also want to let everyone know that there will be no meeting on Monday, April 19, as it's a budget day, so we will allow all members to participate in the events related to the government's budget presentation.

There is one more housekeeping thing that I wanted to remind all members of. In regard to the virtual sign off on committee reports, in the interest of health and safety during the pandemic, the committee staff will meet virtually to carry out the usual proofreading of committee reports after the committee adopts them, to correct any typos that might have been missed during the drafting. To ensure the quality of work, virtual sign offs may take up to three working days. Members may contact the clerk if they have any questions.

I would also take this opportunity to welcome Mr. Peter Schiefke to the committee.

Welcome, Mr. Schiefke.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is resuming its study of labour market impact assessments under the temporary foreign workers program.

As a reminder to our witnesses, you have up to five minutes for your opening remarks and you may split your time among each other within an organization, if you wish.

Today in our first panel, I would welcome Beth Connery, chair of the labour committee of the Canadian Horticultural Council. Representing Food and Beverage Canada, we are also joined by Kathleen Sullivan, chief executive officer, and Daniel Vielfaure, co-chair, as well as being deputy chief executive officer, Groupe Bonduelle. Our third witnesses for today, from the United Refugee Council Canada, are Jagdeep Singh Batth, coordinator, process improvement, and Mr. Singh Rajpurohit, GA chemical machine operator.

I would like to welcome all the witnesses for appearing before today's committee. Thank you.

We will now start with Madam Connery, chair of the labour committee of the Canadian Horticultural Council.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. You can start.

[Elizabeth Connery, Chair, Labour Committee, Canadian Horticultural Council]

Thank you very much for the opportunity to address the committee today.

I have a title there, but in my day job I am a vegetable and fruit grower in Manitoba. That means I have to live with all of these rules on an ongoing basis.

Agriculture stands ready to be an integral part of the economic recovery of Canada as we emerge into the post-pandemic era. One of our major limiting factors is the availability of labour. In the fresh fruit and vegetable industry, which is what I represent, mechanization is being developed as technology advances. However, when you go to your local grocers, most of the produce you see and buy is still being hand-harvested for you. This creates a labour demand that is not met by Canadians who have little interest in rural, seasonal employment. They are understandably looking for something that will pay the bills year-round. For these labour intensive and seasonal crops, having timely, reliable and consistent labour in place during our season is crucial to our success and to our financial viability as a business.

In our search for employees, a labour market impact assessment has become a part of our toolbox in accessing the agricultural stream of the temporary foreign worker program. As an industry which, by definition, is rural and far away from the major population centres and labour pools, access to workers can be very problematic. Many rural locations around the country have been able to demonstrate labour shortages for decades. Last year was an especially difficult year with COVID and the pandemic. Two in five employers were indicating that they could not find the workers they needed. Delays and missing foreign workers meant that many acres of produce went unharvested.

SAWP jobs are seasonal—usually four to eight months in duration—and employers have no capacity to offer year-round employment to these workers. The full-time positions on farms are filled by Canadian workers when we can find them. This is in line with our hire Canadians first policies. When we do have the opportunity to transition a worker to a year-round position, the current model is usually to apply through provincial nominee programs and try to help these employees become eligible. Very often, it is difficult for them to qualify through our immigration system.

We would like to thank the government for the concerted effort that has gone into refining and improving the LMIA process over the last few years, in particular the team lead by Katie Alexander. Increased collaboration within government and with industry have given us all a better understanding of the processes and roadblocks involved. This has resulted in a shortened timeline, which is appreciated by all employers. In fact, work permit processing in IRCC can sometimes be the bigger processing challenge for us. A direct line of communication between ESDC and IRCC for changes needed on work permits would speed the process.

The online LMIA application is a great tool and we use it ourselves. As with any other program, tweaking will improve it, but many employers are using it as part of their TFW application process. Third parties are involved in the LMIA process, but many of the employers, especially in the western provinces, do their own LMIAs and find it very useful. Expanding the online portal to include groups like WALI in B.C., F.A.R.M.S. in Ontario and Ferme in Quebec and allowing them to vet applications before submission could improve the quality of the online applications being received.

There are ongoing concerns around potential fees to access the agricultural TFW streams, which hold the potential to make a program prohibitively expensive for producers. These streams provide critical access to labour for Canadian food production. In particular, the SAWP stream is an annual application.

There's also been discussion of a trusted employer designation for employers who have demonstrated consistent quality employment opportunities for TFWs over a period of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

There are 20 seconds left.

[Elizabeth Connery]

Verification through the current integrity audit system could ensure standards are upheld to maintain status in the program. This type of model could also feed into simplifying the LMIA and other processes for employers over the long term.

In closing, thank you once again for the opportunity to speak with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Connery.

We will now move on to Ms. Sullivan, the chief executive officer of Food and Beverage Canada.

Welcome, Ms. Sullivan. It's good to meet you again. Please begin.

[Kathleen Sullivan, Chief Executive Officer, Food and Beverage Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My name is Kathleen Sullivan, CEO of Food and Beverage Canada, a national association representing Canadian food manufacturers. I am joined by my co-chair Daniel Vielfaure.

Food manufacturing is one of Canada's largest and most important industries. Found in every province, this sector is critical to Canada's food sovereignty and economic well-being and in supporting the country's primary agriculture sector.

Throughout COVID-19, food manufacturers have continued to operate, demonstrating their commitment, and that of their workers, to ensuring that Canadians have the food they need. As this work continues, our sector is eyeing the future, ensuring that we have the foundation for recovery, stability and growth. Critical to this is labour. Canada's food manufacturers are, and have been for a number of years, facing a labour crisis. We are the largest manufacturing employer in Canada, with almost 300,000 workers, but we estimate that the sector is short 30,000 workers, or 10% of our workforce, on any given day. By 2025 we expect that number to double.

This morning Food and Beverage Canada released its workforce and recovery action plan, a plan that is focused on addressing the industry's labour needs. As that plan notes, foreign workers are critical to our future and to ensuring that Canadian companies can produce the food that Canadians require.

I'll now turn to Daniel to speak directly to the TFW program.

[Daniel Vielfaure, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, Groupe Bonduelle, Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas, and Co-Chair, Food and Beverage Canada]

Thank you, Kathleen.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am Daniel Vielfaure, the DCEO of Bonduelle Group and CEO of Bonduelle Americas. Bonduelle is a global food company specializing in frozen and canned vegetables. Here in Canada, Bonduelle is responsible for mostly all of private-label canned and frozen vegetables found in your grocery stores, in addition to such brands as Bonduelle, Arctic Gardens, Del Monte and Green Giant.

Bonduelle is one of Canada's largest food manufacturers, employing almost 2,000 people at eight facilities—four in Quebec, three in Ontario and one in Alberta. Bonduelle is also a Canadian success story of a French privately owned company that chose to invest in Canada and to use Canada as its North American and South American headquarters.

As Kathleen said, labour is the biggest challenge this sector is facing. It is the biggest challenge our company is facing. Without workers, Canada's food plants cannot operate. Without workers, companies like Bonduelle will stop investing in this country. At Bonduelle our business is seasonal. Corn, peas and beans are harvested just once a year. If Bonduelle does not have workers available at harvest time, we cannot package these products. That means there will be no Canadian corn, peas and beans in the grocery stores for the rest of the year. It is that simple.

Temporary foreign workers are critical to Bonduelle's business, but we are often criticized for hiring them. I would like to address some of that criticism head-on.

First, at Bonduelle we hire temporary foreign workers because we need to. Like many food processors, Bonduelle operates in largely rural areas—areas that have seen depopulation over the past decade; areas that no longer have a labour base to support our sector.

Second, hiring temporary foreign workers does not save Bonduelle money. Hiring temporary foreign workers costs Bonduelle about 30% more than hiring Canadians.

Third, we treat our temporary foreign workers as we do any of our workers at Bonduelle. Temporary foreign workers are part of our employee family and part of our community. Many of these workers return to their jobs at Bonduelle every year. Temporary foreign workers are eligible for all of our employee programs and supports. In Bonduelle's unionized plants, temporary foreign workers are part of the union.

Despite the importance of these workers, the temporary foreign worker program seems designed to make their employment in Canada as difficult as possible. Even in normal years the TFW program is overly complex. Approval times are lengthy and do not align with our needs. Limits are imposed on the number of workers we can bring in. In the case of returning workers, the process is highly repetitive. Wages are also an issue, with ESDC often requiring wages that are in excess of industry standards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Daniel Vielfaure]

Okay.

Based on my experience with the TFW program, there are some changes that are desperately needed. We need to simplify the program application. Application fees should be reduced or eliminated. We need to create pathways for the permanent residency of workers. Many of our workers would be happy to stay in Canada and bring their family here.

I will close by repeating what I have already said. Canada needs foreign workers, and temporary foreign workers are a vital component of this sector's workforce. The federal government should be facilitating temporary foreign workers in coming to Canada and supporting companies in hiring them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now hear from Jagdeep Singh Batth, representing United Refugee Council Canada.

Mr. Batth, you can start, please. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Shaitan Singh Rajpurohit, Chemical Machine Operator, United Refugee Council Canada]

Hi, Madam.

My name is Shaitan Singh Rajpurohit. I'm replacing Mr. Jagdeep Singh Bhatt.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay.

[Shaitan Singh Rajpurohit]

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, and ladies and gentlemen.

Before I start, allow me to thank the members of the committee for their kind invitation to appear before the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

My name is Shaitan Singh Rajpurohit, and I have been living in Montreal. It is my understanding that the committee is currently reviewing the usefulness and efficiency of the requirement for the labour market impact assessment under the temporary foreign worker program.

In my humble opinion, LMIAs are very important for several reasons. First and foremost, they are one of the very few measures in the Canadian immigration system that are intended to assure Canadians that the system will not accommodate the immediate needs of the market without considering the employment needs of the people.

There are thousands of people looking for employment in Canada, people who have lost their jobs in the pandemic and others who are young players. They are people who immigrated here in recent years and who have not yet found a steady job, and others who came on temporary work permits and remained in Canada, as well as refugee claimants. However, from labourers to computer experts and medical doctors, many are underemployed. They have a range of skills and work experience, and they are already living and working in Canada. They are familiar with the Canadian people and the workplace culture, and even with the Canadian climate.

It is very important for us and all Canadian businesses and citizens that the unemployed and underemployed be properly documented and considered before allowing the entry of more temporary foreign workers.

Of course, there are difficulties for some employers finding people locally for some jobs in some sectors. However, we don't believe that the only solution is to waive the labour market impact assessment to create more temporary foreign workers. This option is costly to employers, and it creates lots of problems in the workplace due to the high turnover of temporary employees.

The Canadian government should rather maintain the requirement of the labour market impact assessment, consider other means to retain temporary foreign workers who are already settled here, and increase the employment of local people. Amongst possible means to do that, labour market experts have identified several avenues, such as improved recruitment platforms and practices, expanded professional training opportunities, better mechanisms to recognize foreign diplomas, more French language courses in the workplace and, from my own personal experience, one of the best means to ensure a better use of all available people in the workforce is to provide them access to permanent residency

Precarious migrants and refugee claimants often work in health and social services; in food production, processing and distribution; and in security services and in building maintenance. Many are also key to maintaining computer systems, factory equipment and industrial machinery. Because of their expired, precarious or temporary immigration status, many of them are abused by unscrupulous employment agencies and employers, and they are living in constant fear of losing their jobs or being deported from the country.

To address that and to avoid wasting this experienced labour force, the Canadian government should act to regularize the status of migrants so they can work here in optimal conditions.

According to recent media reports in Quebec, barely 30 people have benefited from it so far.

In addition to excluding a significant number of people—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Shaitan Singh Rajpurohit]

Thank you, Ma'am.

Along with human rights defenders, trade unions and numerous other civil society organizations, we believe that an effective regularization program should provide permanent residency to all temporary foreign workers requesting it, and all refugee claimants and all non-status and precarious migrants who are already inside Canada. This should be made a top priority over ease of recruitment of ever-increasing numbers of temporary foreign workers.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and all committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Rajpurohit.

Now we will go to our round of questioning, starting with Mr. Allison.

Mr. Allison, you have six minutes.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses here today as we talk about temporary foreign workers and labour shortages.

My question is for you, Ms. Sullivan. I know we've chatted before. During your testimony, like Daniel, you alluded to the fact that this is not a sample. It's complicated, meaning that it's not straightforward. You guys have cycles. There are a number of different things. I'm sure I could even add Elizabeth into the mix in terms of seasonality, etc.

Just talk to us. I've read your document. You guys are actually looking for more of an overhaul rather than more tweaking, more pilot projects and things like that. Talk to us, Kathleen. Tell us your thoughts on whether this requires some tweaking or a major overhaul. I've also got a follow-up question on the economic piece.

[Kathleen Sullivan]

In terms of the broader labour question, like any workforce, ours is quite broad and diverse. We hire line workers, scientists and managers, so we try to fill those jobs through a number of different sources. Definitely, when it comes to foreign workers, we have a deficit in our sector, and I would argue, across the country, in the number of Canadians we have available relative to the number of jobs.

Foreign workers are really critical to our workforce, and I would argue they're critical to the makeup of Canada as a whole. That's in terms of both full immigration—people coming to Canada full-time—and the temporary foreign worker program. Since we have so many seasonal jobs, Mr. Allison, we do require temporary foreign workers, and that is just a normal part of how our economy functions.

We need to create a program that facilitates and recognizes the importance and contribution of these workers. The current program is far too complicated. We've been talking about this for years, as you know. We need to actually develop a program within the temporary foreign worker family that meets the seasonal needs of primary agriculture and food processing to ensure that we can maintain the supply chain for our food.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you.

My follow-up question is for you, Daniel. Quite clearly, you guys—not just your company, but companies in general—could invest anywhere you want. A lot of people have plants all over the world, and this is part of the decision-making that determines whether you will stay ultimately or grow ultimately in any country. This is certainly a large piece of that puzzle.

I don't think government always understands that when you have a thriving, growing sector, access to capital, regulations, costs of...all these things are what make it complicated or difficult, including for your decision as to whether or not to invest. This labour piece really could be a deciding factor in what you said before about whether you'll stay and grow here or you'll look at trying to grow plants in other parts of the world—if you have those options.

I realize that Food and Beverage Canada has lots of international players, so you guys are competing for capital decisions every day in trying to get people to invest, including you guys deciding whether you want to invest. This labour piece certainly has to be a key part of that. Is that correct?

[Daniel Vielfaure]

That's totally correct. [Technical Difficulty—Editor] the North American businesses were presenting to the group for our capex budgets, and we were asking for $50 million that we would invest this year, the coming year, in Canada. Some of it is for automation. We will try to invest in automation so that we can solve some of the labour challenges that we have.

On the other hand, you need to understand with regard to temporary workers that it's tough to automate a job that lasts three months. The machine is there for a year and it doesn't amortize as fast as if that machine were working the full year.

We need these workers. We need them in rural areas where there is depopulation, and we need them to make our operation survive. If we don't have them, we will choose other places to make our future investments because it's becoming the largest challenge that we face.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you.

Elizabeth, in your answer to my question, you made it very clear that all of you guys, if you could, would hire Canadians. This is what I try to explain to people, that hiring Canadians is always your first priority. It's easier. Otherwise, you have to worry about filling out applications and about housing and all of those kinds of things.

You guys are also, along with Food and Beverage Canada, some of the biggest users of the temporary foreign worker program and some of the agricultural programs. Talk to me once again about how critical it is for you guys. Really, just to be able to produce the food, it's as simple as being able sometimes just to harvest and [Technical Difficulty—Editor] that we can't harvest it in the fall.

[Elizabeth Connery]

Yes, that's exactly true. I'll give you an example. Last year, with COVID-19, our workers came from Mexico and Jamaica, but they were late. We grow asparagus, which means they arrived partially into our season, and my estimate is that we lost $350,000 to $400,000 in income. That had a huge impact on the viability of my farm. That happened across the board and it happens every year.

It's incredibly important that we are able to access workers.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you very much, Elizabeth.