Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome.

Based on the Board of Internal Economy, I would like all the members to adhere to the following health protocols. Maintain a physical distance of at least two metres from others. Wear a non-medical mask unless seated, and preferably wear a mask at all times, including when seated. Maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizer provided in the committee room, and regularly wash your hands well with soap.

As the chair of this committee, I will enforce these measures. I thank you all for your co-operation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House of Commons order of January 25, 2021. I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You may speak in the official language of your choice. At the bottom of your screen you may choose to have floor audio, or English or French. With the latest Zoom version, you do not need to select a corresponding language channel before speaking. The “raise hand” feature is on the main toolbar, should you wish to speak.

I'll remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be muted. The committee clerk and I will maintain a speaking list for all the members.

Today, we will be resuming our study on the labour market impact assessment under the temporary foreign workers program. We will be hearing from witnesses.

Today with this panel we will be hearing from the Manitoba Trucking Association, represented by Terry Shaw, executive director. We have Greg Arndt, vice-president of Jade Transport Limited, and Scott Kinley, chief executive officer of Gladstone Transfer Limited.

We will be hearing from Desloges Law Group Professional Corporation, represented by Andrew Carvajal, lawyer and partner.

We will also be hearing from l'Union des producteurs agricoles, represented by Marcel Groleau, general president, and Denis Roy, treasurer and director of finances and workforces.

I will take this opportunity to welcome all the witnesses today on behalf of all the members. All the witnesses will be given five minutes for their opening remarks. Then we will go into the round of questions.

With that, I would request that the Manitoba Trucking Association please proceed. You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Terry Shaw, Executive Director, Manitoba Trucking Association]

Thank you, Madam Chair. If my colleagues are okay with it, I will go first.

Thank you very much to everybody for having us today.

My name is Terry Shaw. I'm the executive director of the Manitoba Trucking Association, which represents over 300 companies in the Manitoba trucking industry, and the MTA is a proud member of the Canadian Trucking Alliance, which represents over 4,500 companies in the Canadian trucking industry.

On behalf of the board and membership of the MTA and the CTA, I appreciate being afforded the time today to address the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration so we can provide some insight into labour market impact assessments and the temporary foreign worker program.

In opening today, I would also like to acknowledge the partnership that the MTA and all CTA members have with Trucking Human Resources Canada, or THRC, the national sector council for the trucking and logistics workforce in Canada.

Much of the labour market information I hope to be speaking to today came to us from THRC, and of special note to today's discussion I refer all committee members to THRC's temporary foreign worker program review of August 2018. While the report was published a couple of years ago, the themes and recommendations contained within the report remain relevant today. A copy of the report was sent to our committee contacts in advance of today's discussion.

High-level feedback captured on the program during those discussions came under the following headings: processing times, consistency of service, processing fees, work permit renewable times and application requirements. From those high-level feedback categories, the following recommendations were suggested.

The first key recommendation was for a trusted employer or fast-tracking process. A consistent point across the country was the need for a trusted employer vetting process to expedite and streamline the LMIA process.

The second key recommendation was for the applications to reflect the realities of the trucking industry. The application form and content are not reflective of the realities of the Canadian trucking industry. Notable issues with the application included the compensation structure and reporting requirements, the job advertisement and recruiting requirements, and the complexity of the application process, which leads many employers to seek legal aid and third party advisement.

The third key recommendation was process improvements. Some of those have been made since the report was published, so we want to acknowledge that and thank those involved for making those process improvements. Some outstanding suggested improvements are ensuring that program officers are familiar with the trucking industry, setting realistic and standardized processing times for program applications, linking processing fees to service standards and considering a set fee per application rather than per number of positions.

The last recommendation, which again was consistent across the country's round table sessions, was related to inconsistencies at the provincial level regarding provincial nominee programs that support a path to permanent residency. It is being proposed that the federal government, with our provincial government partners, take a lead in supporting a streamlined and consistent approach to permanent residency for foreign workers at the national level.

So that I don't utilize all our time, I will end this by leaving the committee with this thought. Making the above changes will not just benefit the Canadian trucking industry. It will benefit those whom our industry seeks to employ. It will benefit our government partners tasked with oversight of this program. Most importantly, process improvements that happen to benefit trucking benefit the entire Canadian supply chain, which is the foundation of our country's economic success.

I leave you with that to conclude my opening remarks, and I thank you, folks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have a minute left. Would someone else from the Manitoba Trucking Association like to speak?

[Scott Kinley, Chief Executive Officer, Gladstone Transfer Ltd, Manitoba Trucking Association]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon. My name is Scott Kinley. I'm the CEO of Gladstone Transfer Ltd., a rural Manitoba-based trucking company in Gladstone, Manitoba.

My company was started in 1947 by my grandfather, and incorporated in 1973, making me the third generation at the helm of the company.

As you are aware, our industry is struggling to fill seats with drivers. The profession of a class 1 over-the-road driver is not a profession that the youth of today in Canada are embracing. Overseas, there are significantly more people content with the profession as a professional driver. These drivers from overseas are looking for opportunities to bring their families and settle in Canada. This helps both the employee and the employer.

I see a few challenges with the current LMIA program, the first being advertising criteria. The 30-day advertising requirement is redundant in terms of what we do as a company year-round. This adds 30 more days to the application process.

The fee of $1,000 per application is fine, but it should come with some sort of guarantee, as each—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Kinley, I'm sorry for interrupting, but your time is up. You will get an opportunity to talk further when we go to rounds of questions. If for any reason there is something at the end that you think you have not been able to say, you can always send us a written submission.

We will move on to the Desloges Law Group Professional Corporation, and I would request that Mr. Andrew Carvajal please take the floor.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Andrew Carvajal, Lawyer and Partner, Desloges Law Group Professional Corporation]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to the committee for inviting me today.

I'm an immigration lawyer and partner at Desloges Law Group, a firm dedicated to the exclusive practice of Canadian immigration, refugee and citizenship law. I'm appearing today to speak about the temporary foreign worker program as someone who has been helping employers of all sizes navigate this program for almost a decade.

I want to start by saying that I value the role played by labour market impact assessments in Canada. However, while foreign workers are crucial to our economy and labour force, I agree that Canadians should have first choice of domestic job opportunities.

I'm thankful for the work of Service Canada employees in processing these applications, and I have been particularly impressed that during COVID-19, Service Canada employees were able to quickly go back to regular processing times and even improve on them recently with the rollout of the online submission pilot. The painful part of bringing a foreign worker here these days, as far as processing times are concerned, is mainly visa processing, not the LMIA stage.

I want to address three things that could be improved to make it easier for employers to staff positions that lack the right talent in Canada.

The first is transparency in LMIA guidelines and decision-making. Unlike the IRCC, which publishes incredibly detailed manuals and instructions, online LMIA guides include very basic information that makes it exceedingly difficult for self-represented employers to navigate this process. I know this because we are often retained to represent employers who have failed on their own.

LMIAs are some of the most technical applications that we work on. I have learned the art of preparing them from trial and error, from hearing about experiences of immigration colleagues and from reading ESDC's heavily redacted internal guidelines when they are made available through access to information and privacy requests.

The ESDC website makes LMIAs look like a simple process that allows the employer to make many decisions, but in reality, officers follow incredibly detailed scripts and guidelines telling them what an employer should and should not do. These manuals should be accessible to the public to make this process more transparent.

My second suggestion has to do with LMIAs from an employer who is looking to retain a worker in the same position after the expiry of the work permit. Right now, employers are required to start the process from scratch and advertise a position like they did before. Perhaps we can develop a system where employers in certain industries known for continuous labour shortages can apply for a simplified LMIA for the same position and employee. I like the trusted employer program that many witnesses have been discussing.

Something that would also assist significantly in this regard is extending the duration of a single LMIA work permit to two years. Right now, for most low-wage LMIAs, the work permits are limited to one year, forcing employers to invest significant resources in the same process every year. In addition, if an employee is eligible and intends to transition to permanent residence, the one-year work permit never provides sufficient time to apply.

On the topic of transition to permanent residence, I want to make my third suggestion. Most federal and provincial economic programs for permanent residence are designed for individuals with professional or technical work experience, yet more than 70% of LMIA work permits are issued to low-skilled workers. This means that the workers we lack most in Canada have no path to permanent residence.

On April 14, the government made one of the most exciting announcements I remember as an immigration lawyer. It was the introduction of new temporary permanent residence pathways for essential workers and international graduates. However, the rollout of these programs could have been more responsible and organized. All we found out was that new programs will open in less than one month, with very limited quotas and no information on the required documents or forms that will need to be submitted. This has resulted in a complete frenzy of people booking English tests and medical exams and ordering police certificates, not knowing if they will be required or not, just to try to make the quota before it fills up.

Because of this, there are no more available English tests in Ontario until December 2021. This means that the only individuals who will get to apply under these new programs are those who had the luck to book a language test right away because they could afford to look for one all day, or those who already had a test result before because they were preparing to submit an application under another program or already had an application in progress. The very coveted spots will therefore likely be taken by people who already had other paths to permanent residence, not the agricultural workers, the truckers, the cleaners, the grocery store attendants and other semi-skilled workers.

The worst part is that this affects not only those who will not be able to apply in time, but also others who need to book English tests or medical exams for other immigration programs. If this had been planned better and released earlier with clear instructions, this exciting announcement would not have been so bittersweet.

Once again, I'm very thankful for the opportunity to speak to this important subject as a professional in the field.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Carvajal, for your opening remarks.

We will now move on to Mr. Groleau, general president of l'Union des producteurs agricoles.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please proceed.

[Marcel Groleau, General President, Union des producteurs agricoles]

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Marcel Groleau, and I am the general president of the Union des producteurs agricoles, or UPA, which represents Quebec’s 29,000 farms. Joining me is Denis Roy, an immigration consultant at the UPA.

From the outset, we want the Government of Canada to understand one thing: temporary foreign farm workers are essential workers not only for Canada’s agri-food sector but also for the food security of Canadians. The pandemic has made clear to everyone just how important they are. I think every federal department and agency in the country now understands that.

In responding to the pandemic’s many challenges and in making decisions, the government has regularly failed to take foreign farm workers into account. To this day, numerous problems persist when it comes to COVID 19 testing, which farm workers must self-administer while in quarantine. The decision to use a Toronto-based company to serve people in Quebec has had disastrous consequences. We hope that Ms. Bibeau’s announcement today will remedy the situation, which has been very hard on farm employers in Quebec and on foreign workers.

Now that I have made that important point, I will turn to the labour market impact assessments, or LMIAs, and the application process.

The UPA operates 12 agricultural employment centres across Quebec, which, every single day, help 2,500 farmers find workers to alleviate the labour shortage.

Until 2015, the UPA had been the federal government's partner for 40 years, receiving all LMIA applications from farm employers in Quebec. Today, the UPA helps 1,500 employers overcome the administrative complexities of filling out 3,000 LMIA applications a year. We are thoroughly familiar with the process.

The unemployment rate in Quebec is currently 6.4%, the lowest in the country. Agricultural production is growing annually by 8.7%. In regions like Chaudière-Appalaches, a farming area in central Quebec, the unemployment rate is close to 4%. The labour shortage is expected to last for at least the next decade. It is no surprise that the number of temporary foreign workers in Quebec is increasing 10% annually. That number will only go up, so it’s time to reconsider the administrative requirements of the seasonal agricultural workers program.

Employers prefer to hire the same workers, those who come back every year at the same time to do the same work. Why not allow those employers to submit LMIA applications for work permits that would be valid for two seasons, two years? That would be an easy way to reduce the red tape for employers, workers and public servants, one that would make a real difference. A change like that would cut down on processing time and the valuable time lost with each of the many steps in the process. All that extra time compounds the stress farmers are already under. Every hiccup along the way can delay the desired arrival of the foreign worker, or worse, jeopardize their arrival.

Bear in mind that a farmer’s work depends on the weather, a factor they have no control over.

With respect to a more streamlined process, we submitted recommendations to the department in 2019 to simplify the LMIA application. We identified at least 24 questions that could be removed from applications involving the agricultural sector. That would shorten the form from 12 to six pages.

Currently, employers and workers have to negotiate three different programs. In Quebec, our position is clear: reforms should be based on the farm stream program. We therefore recommend simplifying the process by removing the list of agricultural products eligible under the program and referring to the definition of primary agriculture set out in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations. It took at least 10 years for maple syrup production to be added to the list.

Must we remind the government that Canada’s agricultural sector includes a multitude of family farms? The UPA works actively to help preserve and develop sustainable human-scale farms.

Nevertheless, the biggest challenge these small businesses face is accessing enough labour to meet their production needs. Small farms are not in a position to offer a worker 40 or 50 hours a week. The government needs to change farm program rules to allow several farmers to share a single worker. Such a measure could easily be implemented on dairy or livestock farms, for instance. A farm worker could split their time between two farms, as per the employers’ needs and priorities; they could do the morning milking shift on one farm and the night milking shift on another. Of course, the farms would have to be close to one another.

Of course, the farms would have to be close to one another.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Groleau. Your time is up.

[Marcel Groleau]

In conclusion, I would say that farm workers are absolutely essential, and they must be taken into consideration by all federal departments and agencies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. Your time is up.

[Marcel Groleau]

These programs need to be simplified.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You will get an opportunity to talk further in the round of questioning.

We will move to our first round of questioning.

Mr. Saroya, please proceed for six minutes.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for coming forward with your issues.

My first question is for any of you. On the one hand, the government is saying we will fast-track immigration for TFWs like farm workers. Many blue-collar categories are also on the so-called expedited list for permanent residence. On the other hand, they are declining applications, citing the concern that applicants may not return to their country. Are your clients experiencing similar situations?

This is for anybody, from the large law firm to anybody else.

[Andrew Carvajal]

I can certainly address that, Madam Chair, if you wish.

Yes, there are definitely programs in place to sometimes make the LMIA process faster for some essential occupations when it comes to recruitment and also the processing of the work permits. However, we are seeing, as MP Saroya is pointing out, many issues with refusals of work permits, particularly in some visa offices. Applications are sent, for instance, from countries such as India, Pakistan and some of the other Southeast Asian countries. Many times it is because of this issue of fear. The officer is concerned that the applicant might not return to their home country after the expiry of their work permit.

If there were clearer paths to permanent residence for these individuals, then I think it would be easier to make an argument that there is a way for them to stay and this should not be a concern. I think that's one way this could be addressed.

Also, it really depends on the visa office. We find in some visa offices that often what you need to show to be able to have a work permit approved seems to be much more than in others. Whether it should be that way, it's hard for me to tell. There are some countries where a lot of people might include documentation that might be falsified or that tends to be documents that are not as legitimate as in other places.

I agree, though, that it's a constant concern that people are not going to leave Canada at the end of the stay. If we need these people and we need them continuously, then we should create programs for them to stay. Officers then wouldn't be concerned about this as much.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Andrew, thank you.

Does anybody else have any thoughts on the same question?

Okay. I will go on to something else.

Andrew, maybe you can answer this question as well. Immigration outposts are ignoring the fact that farmers have gone through an LMIA process. They are using extended powers to ask identical or extended questions in the immigration process. Are your clients experiencing anything similar?

[Andrew Carvajal]

That's an excellent point. I'm glad that you are bringing this to the attention of the committee and that it has been brought to your attention. We are seeing that. We are seeing some visa posts asking for documentation from the employer. This is not only agricultural; it's in trucking a lot as well. There are lots of documents from the employer, lots of financials and evidence of whether they are operating or not.

These are things that should have been dealt with at the LMIA stage. That's not to mention that a lot of employers don't feel comfortable providing this to an employee to then send with their work permit application. We have been noticing this a lot, especially in some visa offices.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I'll move on to a different question. Two of the transportation companies called me from the GTA earlier this morning. They're saying that the LMIA program simply doesn't work. Most of the time, the applications are denied. It's too costly. It's too long. At the end of the day, the result is the same. Most of the time they end up hiring student drivers—the international students who get their AZ licences, I suppose—and their insurance has gone through the roof. They are having a difficult time hiring drivers with experience and having the mature people who can help them.

Do you have any thoughts on that issue, please?

Andrew, you can answer that question.

[Andrew Carvajal]

I'm sorry—was that for me, or was it for the people from the trucking industry?

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Anybody can answer it. Your situation is similar to theirs. You can answer it.

[Andrew Carvajal]

Sure. I wouldn't know much about what trucking employers need to do. We've done a few LMIAs for trucking. We have been successful in those. I find that the most challenging part with those kinds of applications is actually the work permit from wherever we're bringing people. I think probably my colleagues who are from these industries might be able to speak more about this.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Anybody from the trucking association can answer it, if they're finding a similar situation.

Terry, go ahead, please.

[Terry Shaw]

Thank you very much.

We would echo those comments. We understand that there needs to be some rigour within the system, and we don't dispute that at all, but once you're in, again, that trusted employer concept should be put in place as well. Mr. Carvajal spoke to it very succinctly. The process itself is overly complex—it's very complex, which again—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Shaw, but your time is up.

We will now move to Mr. Sidhu.

Mr. Sidhu, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please proceed.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

Mr. Kinley, your time was cut short, and I'm very interested to hear your thoughts and recommendations, so if you'd like to take a couple of minutes to finish off your thoughts, I wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say.