Evidence of meeting #28 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Leif-Erik Aune
Eric Dubé  Chief Executive Officer, Toundra Greenhouses
Casey Vander Ploeg  Vice-President, National Cattle Feeders' Association
Jolayne Farn  Human Resources Manager, Van Raay Paskal Farm Ltd., National Cattle Feeders' Association
Sheri Somerville  Chief Executive Officer, Atlantic Chamber of Commerce
Brandon Ellis  Senior Manager, Policy, Atlantic Chamber of Commerce

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 28 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

The Board of Internal Economy requires that the committee adhere to the following health protocols: maintain a physical distance of at least two metres from others; wear a non-medical mask unless seated, and preferably wear a mask at all times, including when seated; and maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizer provided in the committee room and by regularly washing your hands well with soap. As the chair, I will enforce these measures, and I really want to thank you for your co-operation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You may speak in the official language of your choice. At the bottom of your screen, you may choose to hear floor audio, English or French. With the latest Zoom version, you do not need to select a corresponding language channel before speaking. The “raise hand” feature is on the main toolbar if you wish to speak.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed to the chair. When you are not speaking, please keep your microphones muted. The committee clerk and I will maintain a speaking list for all the members.

Today, we resume our study of the labour market impact assessment under the temporary foreign worker program. We will be hearing from three witnesses in this panel.

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome all our witnesses for appearing before the committee and giving us their time. We look forward to hearing your important testimonies.

Today, we will be hearing from the National Cattle Feeders' Association, represented by Casey Vander Ploeg, vice-president; and Jolayne Farn, human resources manager, Van Raay Paskal Farms Ltd. We will also hear from the Atlantic Chamber of Commerce, represented by Sheri Somerville, chief executive officer; and Brandon Ellis, senior manager, policy. We will also hear from Toundra Greenhouses, represented by Eric Dubé, chief executive officer.

All the witnesses will be given five minutes for their opening remarks, and then we will proceed to the rounds of questioning.

Before I open the floor for the opening remarks from the witnesses, I just want to get the consent of the committee.

Because our witness Eric Dubé does not have a headset, it will not be possible to have interpretation. I want to seek the consent of the committee to allow him to give his testimony without having interpretation.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Madam Clerk, I wouldn't say that's fair.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

If that's the case and interpretation cannot happen, then we will not hear from Mr. Dubé.

Mr. Clerk, can you clarify why interpretation would not be available for Mr. Dubé's opening remarks?

4 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Leif-Erik Aune

During the sound check, the witness's integrated microphone on his device produced an audio quality that was not strong enough to allow for safe interpretation. I'm advised that the interpretation service is not possible with the quality of Mr. Dubé's audio. We could attempt it, but the interpretation service predicts that unless his audio quality were to change—and there's no technical reason to expect that it would—interpretation service won't be possible. They express their regrets.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

If we do not have unanimous consent from the committee, then I would request that Mr. Dubé send in a written submission.

Mr. Regan.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Madam Chair, there is no doubt that it is very important to have simultaneous interpretation so that committee members, and even the witnesses, can understand the comments from witnesses. It's essential for our meetings.

I wonder if we could try again for a few minutes and ask Mr. Dubé to come a little closer to his computer. That might help.

It's just a suggestion.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you, Mr. Regan.

Mr. Clerk, can we try that?

4 p.m.

The Clerk

Yes, we can try that.

Mr. Dubé, can I ask you to speak to us for 10 or 15 seconds.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I see Madam Normandin's hand raised.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Yes, I would like to make a very quick comment in support of those made by Mr. Regan.

It is important for us to have interpretation as one of our parliamentary privileges. However, if Mr. Dubé wants to stay with us, we could ask him questions, at least in the context of the discussions we will be having, and he can reply in writing.

Can the analysts compile the questions we ask and send them to Mr. Dubé, if the sound checks still don't work?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Mr. Clerk, can you do the check for Mr. Dubé?

4:05 p.m.

The Clerk

Mr. Dubé, could you bring your computer's microphone very close to your mouth and speak to us for 10 or 15 seconds?

4:05 p.m.

Eric Dubé Chief Executive Officer, Toundra Greenhouses

Good afternoon. My apologies for the problem with the microphone. I received the invitation less than 48 hours ago and we weren't able to obtain a microphone that would help with the interpretation and accommodate everyone. I am not sure whether people can hear me, whether the service is working properly. You will have to tell me.

4:05 p.m.

The Clerk

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

We're advised that, for reasons of health and safety, the interpretation service is not able to interpret the testimony.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

I think it would be best if you can send us a written submission because this is the last meeting with witnesses. It will not be possible for us to reschedule a meeting with you.

4:05 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Toundra Greenhouses

Eric Dubé

Okay, thank you.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

You can stay with us and hear the questions. I will work with the clerk to see how we can get some of the questions answered from your end, through a written testimony.

Yes, Mr. Dhaliwal.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, even though Mr. Dubé is not making his statement right now, if there are questions for him, certainly those can be posed by the members of Parliament. Then they can be answered in written form.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Yes. that's what I have suggested to Mr. Dubé, that he can stay and hear the discussion. If there are some questions to which the members need answers, we can send them in writing to Mr. Dubé, and he can send us a written response.

With that, we will start hearing from our witnesses.

First, we will hear from the National Cattle Feeders' Association.

Casey Vander Ploeg, vice-president, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

4:05 p.m.

Casey Vander Ploeg Vice-President, National Cattle Feeders' Association

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to speak today.

My name is Casey Vander Ploeg. I am the vice-president of the National Cattle Feeders' Association. I'm joined today by Ms. Jolayne Farn, who is the HR manager at one of Canada's largest cattle feeding operations, Van Raay Paskal Farms in southern Alberta.

I'll say just a few words first about who we are and what we do.

Every spring, there are millions of calves born on some 75,000 farms and ranches across Canada. After a season on pasture eating grass, these calves are sold to cattle feeders and placed in a feedlot operation, where they're fed a high-energy grain ration that takes them from 500 or 600 pounds to a market weight of 1,500 pounds. Canada's feedlots range widely in terms of size, from 1,000- and 5,000-head operations to over 100,000 head. These larger operations employ hundreds of people. Every year, cattle feeders in this country finish over three million head of cattle and generate $9 billion in farm income.

Without question, a chronic shortage of labour is the single largest challenge facing Canadian agriculture. It results in lost sales of over $400 million annually for our beef industry, and over $3 billion when you consider all of agriculture. Despite Herculean efforts, agriculture simply cannot attract enough domestic labour to fill these rural jobs, and because there is no stream within the immigration system to secure agriculture workers, we rely on the temporary foreign worker program. It's the only gateway for our sector to secure foreign labour, which we then work to transition to permanent residency.

Before I turn to Jolayne to detail some of the concerns we have with LMIAs and the TFW program, I want to stress a critically important point: Cattle feeders are not interested in low-skilled foreign temporary workers. We need permanent full-time skilled workers. The temporary foreign worker program is designed for temporary workers and is not a natural fit for our sector, but it's the only option we have.

I give the floor over to you, Jolayne.

May 5th, 2021 / 4:10 p.m.

Jolayne Farn Human Resources Manager, Van Raay Paskal Farm Ltd., National Cattle Feeders' Association

Thank you, Casey.

I speak from 15 years of HR experience and seven frustrating years of working with the temporary foreign worker program. The LMIA process is costly, inefficient and does not meet the needs of the beef industry. The program is complicated, and we need to hire immigration consultants to help us manage it.

Also, changes to the program occur without notice. For example, we submitted LMIAs, and while they were being processed, the approved wage rate was changed. Our application was denied and we had to start all over—at the employer's expense.

The housing must be secured, inspected and paid for prior to an LMIA being submitted and the workers' arrival. The process takes at least four months, so we have to pay for housing that sits empty. We've paid $5,000 in rent for one house and as much as $21,000 for houses that sat empty while we waited for approvals.

Service Canada officers lack knowledge about agriculture. Our job descriptions are not understood, and neither are rural locations and addresses. The resulting delays and denied applications are, again, at the employer's expense.

Before submitting an LMIA, we need to post job advertisements for 14 days and provide a detailed report on our attempt to hire Canadians. We once submitted all this required information and the LMIA was denied. We found that the officer did not review all the information provided.

Processing times are far too long. Job advertisements take two weeks. Service Canada takes four to eight weeks to review the application and another two to four weeks to secure a work permit. The process takes four to six months before a worker arrives, and this assumes a smooth process, which rarely occurs. COVID-19 has made the process even longer and more expensive with travel logistics and the need to pay wages for workers in quarantine.

It is important to understand that overcoming these frustrations and getting foreign agriculture workers into Canada is just the first step. Once workers arrive, we focus on transitioning them to permanent residency, and that can take years.

We were pleased when the government announced plans to allow permanent residency for some 90,000 foreign workers now in Canada, but this too has issues. No third party is allowed to support the workers in submitting applications. Medical tests, translations, employment letters, forms and passports have to be submitted as one package. The cost to apply is over $1,000 per worker, and there is no reimbursement if the application is denied—

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Farn, but your time is up.

We will now proceed to the Atlantic Chamber of Commerce.

Ms. Somerville, you have five minutes for your opening remarks. You can share your time with your colleague.

4:10 p.m.

Sheri Somerville Chief Executive Officer, Atlantic Chamber of Commerce

Mr. Ellis will be taking our time. He'll lead the charge on this one.

4:10 p.m.

Brandon Ellis Senior Manager, Policy, Atlantic Chamber of Commerce

Thank you very much, Sheri.

Thank you very much to the committee members for having us here today, and to you as well, Madam Chair.

My name is Brandon Ellis. I am the senior manager of policy for the Atlantic Chamber of Commerce. As was mentioned, we're also joined by our chief executive officer today, Sheri Somerville.

The Atlantic Chamber of Commerce represents 94 chambers of commerce and boards of trade, and the interests of 16,000 businesses across four Atlantic provinces.

Throughout the pandemic, and in the time predating it, we have seen immigration play a vital role in the economic stability of our region. Immigration programs have allowed Atlantic Canadian communities to grow their population and have seen businesses diversify their skill sets and their workforces as well.

The Atlantic chamber is pleased to see the recent commitment by government to increase immigration targets by over 400,000 per year for the next three years. We're also pleased to see former leaders making positive contributions to the discussion on immigration, such as the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney with his recent commentary suggesting that Canada needs to triple its population by the end of the century.

In order to grow and have a robust workforce, we must begin taking down the barriers for employers and newcomers. Labour market impact assessment processing times have generally decreased throughout the pandemic, yet many employers, particularly in agriculture, as our fellow witnesses have just relayed, have said that more communication from government is needed as travel restrictions continue to evolve.

It has also become more costly for employers to recruit immigrant workers due to the rising cost of flights, the implementation of quarantine hotels, the provision of food to workers while they're quarantining, and in Atlantic Canada, the mandatory two-week quarantine restrictions across the four provinces. All of these costs are, in most cases, at the expense of the employer.

Furthermore, LMIAs and slow permit processing times have contributed to an increasingly burdensome process for recruiting entry-level workers. While express entry programs can see immigrants come to Canada in a relatively short time frame, there are examples of employer attempts to recruit entry-level workers—who do not qualify for the express entry category—taking between 12 to 18 months within our region.

It is not only permit processing that adds to the administrative length and burden. Additional factors include needing to establish an account with the Government of Canada's job bank, getting vacancies posted, the required one-month advertising period, and then the LMIA processing, as well.

Government should establish collaborations with businesses and communities to assist immigrants and international students as they attempt to connect with the workplace. There must be an increase in resources to help immigrants settle in their new communities. Immigrants will be put in a position to succeed when they are welcomed as members of the community. To facilitate that, there must be adequate resources that are allocated to ensure long-term success.

The Atlantic chamber believes that immigration will be instrumental in the economic recovery of Canada. Government must focus on programs to increase experiential learning, accelerate immigration, recognize foreign credentials, simplify seasonal work programs and enhance settlement services and retention strategies.

In the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic, we must ensure that we will have a robust labour market with access to qualified workers. This will ensure that we not only recover but also grow.

We would like to thank the Government of Canada and the citizenship and immigration committee for the important work that you are doing. Immigration is vital to the future of Canada, and we must all work collaboratively to ensure that immigrants are in a position to succeed upon arrival. We must also actively work to reduce the regulatory burden and wait times for immigrants and employers.

We welcome any questions that the committee may have.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you, Mr. Ellis, for your remarks.

We will now proceed to our round of questioning. We will start our round of questioning with Mr. Hallan.

Mr. Hallan, you will have six minutes. You can please proceed.