Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2021

[Emily Lauzon]

I can speak to that a little bit.

I believe the needs are the same, but the access to services is completely different. Everyone needs housing; they need opportunities for career growth and they need services, but temporary residents don't have access to the same services that permanent residents do.

We're really happy that settlement services in Thunder Bay can provide a lot of pre-arrival help, such as help with getting health cards, understanding transportation and finding housing. The basic stuff is covered, and they're allowed to access that once they've become part of the program, but temporary residents in general—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Lauzon. The time is up for Ms. Normandin. Maybe you will get an opportunity in the second round.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan for six minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

I'm going to give a couple moments for that answer to be completed. I think it's important to hear the answer.

[Emily Lauzon]

Thank you.

We have a large pool of temporary residents living in Canada, and in Thunder Bay specifically, who we would really like to help. We would really like to support their staying here, but they don't have access to provincially funded employment programs. They have very little support in accessing co-op work permits while they are in post-secondary studies. I think our university reported on the percentage that they had for co-op work permits, and it was very low. That is the first integration into the workforce stuff.

There are very few opportunities for them in getting those funded services that support them in their resettlement. It's challenging, it's very challenging.

When I worked as a “matchmaker”, as they called it, with the Northern Policy Institute, we were exploring those gaps facing temporary residents. We found that immigration and career advising, employment counselling, were two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other. You can't have an employment counsellor working with a temporary resident who can't also advise them on immigration. You can't advise a temporary resident on immigration without the career counselling side of things. Those two things are really integral for people who are already living in Canada who want to stay.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That is exactly the point from our last panel as well, where we heard some of the witnesses saying that what Canada really needs to do is provide landed status on arrival so these people can, in fact, put down roots, access the services and be fully supported. As such, not only would they come, but they would also stay.

Would you agree that part of the issue of what we need to do is, in fact, change our immigration system to allow for landed status immigrant pathway as opposed to just a temporary pathway?

[Emily Lauzon]

Is this a question for me?

I wasn't sure.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, it is, sorry. It's just to build on the answer.

[Emily Lauzon]

Yes. I was listening to that discussion, and I thought it was very interesting, because I do wonder about that myself, such as on access to services and whether or not that should just be opened up to people with temporary status or whether or not having the landed status and access right off the bat.... There is no kind of barrier to get through that way.

There is this thing that we think about a lot with the RNIP. It's whether or not, once somebody gets their permanent resident status, they will stay.

We often talk about screening people who want to come on a work permit, because it allows them to be tied to an employer for at least a short amount of time, so they have a chance to stick around and experience it. We wonder if people would make the choice to move to Thunder Bay if they came with PR, or would they just decide to go somewhere else right away?

I guess that's kind of an unknown.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That's interesting. We had other witnesses at different meetings who provided information to the effect that the workers would want to stay, particularly, for example, in the meat packing industry. The employer was very proactive in supporting the employee finding that permanent pathway. They are saying, in fact, that it would be great if they didn't have to do all of this rigmarole, and to have the family stay right from the get-go.

The other issue as well is that a lot of the migrant workers who come, even if they are able to bring their families here temporarily, aside from not be able to access the services.... For example, if you have children, you have to pay foreign student fees, which are very expensive and have a big impact on people.

All of those thing, right from the get-go, set up barriers for people. It's not welcoming, right off the top.

What are your comments about that?

[Emily Lauzon]

I had looked into this a little bit as we were trying to help people who come on temporary status with their children. That is one of the big fears. We've had some people say they want to stay home until they get their PR. They don't want to come on the work permit because they are worried about paying international student fees and things like that.

What we've learned is that those fees and those decisions are made independently by the schools. We know that students of foreign workers in Thunder Bay are exempt from international student fees. They don't have to pay international student fees; they can apply for an exemption because their family has worker status.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If there is such an exemption, should that not be applied across the board? If I were a parent, I'd be very worried about it right off the top, and that would be a deterrent for me.

[Emily Lauzon]

Yes, it was concerning for me that, when they did pre-arrival services with our settlement agencies, that topic was not discussed. It wasn't until they spoke to me. I actually called the university and asked them what the rules were around somebody's being exempt from the international student fees, and I relayed that information back to them.

I think that maybe there are not a lot of people talking about what makes a person an international student or what doesn't under the immigration rules. I think it would be great if it were across the board, of course.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Also, it shouldn't just be from school to school either—

[Emily Lauzon]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—or from province to province because, again, that does not help the situation at all.

Thank you very much. I think I saw the chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 15 seconds.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—flash the card, so thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

We will now start our second round of questioning with Mr. Allison for five minutes.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Lalande, Ms. Lauzon mentioned language as being one of the barriers, but my question for you is about the following. You have probably looked at a lot of macro stuff. Do you have anything, even if it's anecdotal, to indicate which would be more successful? I totally get that, if you're a student in Thunder Bay and you've had a chance to experience the city, the beauty of what it is and all that kind of stuff, that would be more likely to give you an opportunity to want to stay on after school. What are some of the other factors? I realize that we lose a lot of rural people because they come to the cities where there's a community group or part of that. What would be some of the other things that would help attract people to rural life more?

[Lisa Lalande]

That's a good question.

I think in the last panel we heard someone say, “local solutions for local problems”. I think that is really important because the issues that arise in specific communities will vary. I'm from a small town. I grew up in Timmins and Kirkland Lake, and I understand how different it is even from those two different communities.

I think the comment was made earlier about the role of employers in helping to not only attract talent but also ensure that they're integrated and connected to the community. We know that when local residents are part of the process—and some great examples are surfacing through these provincial pilots—they have a stake in the program, and they're much more welcoming.

Although support for immigration is high in the country, it's not something that we can take for granted. It's something that we need to nurture and be aware of.

Jon, you and I have talked about this in the past. Do you want to add to some of the points I've just made?

[Jon Medow]

Sure. I would just add that research shows that overall shifting from a focus on why immigrants leave communities towards why they stay really helps a lot. I think the framing of your question was very positive.

Some of the other comments that witnesses have made today allude to the fact that it really has to be about being a welcoming and supportive place for all members of the household. We can't just be thinking about the needs of principal applicants; we also have to be thinking about spouses and children.

There has been a lot of work in this area. We know that it really can't be overstated how much that kind of community effort to collectively be a welcoming place creates positive perceptions of the community once immigrants are present. That, in turn, drives other individuals to choose a community because of the presence of family, friends and other immigrants, combined with good employment opportunities, good educational opportunities, and access to cultural and religious amenities—that's something that's important too.

I think it also should just be said that people are different. There are those who desire a small community lifestyle with a lower cost of living and greater access to nature, perhaps. Really, the more we can do to share information about the options that are available to prospective immigrants, the better off we'll be.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Pucci, do you want to add to that?

I get the university-town thought process. If we can attract the best and the brightest from around the world and people get a chance to see first-hand our smaller communities, there's probably more of a desire to maybe stick around after that, especially if employment is available.

I guess my question, based on your experience in Thunder Bay, then, is about how employment factors into it. However, what I'm hearing from all of you is that how welcoming those employers are, how they work for them and how they make them feel part of the community are also a big part of that.

[Piero Pucci]

Yes, it plays an important role. A community has to identify where the demand is, right? Early on, even before RNIP was a thought, we identified where our major sectors are and what's in demand. We tend to target and work with partners not only in the GTA but also in Winnipeg. Thunder Bay, being closer to Manitoba, does have some partnerships there. We work within Winnipeg. We've been able to work with that.

It's important to realize what the community strength is and where its jobs are and identify that. I think that's important to promote not only at a local level but on the national level. If the federal government wanted to help market communities on the tourism side, not just a picture of the CN Tower all the time in your videos.... Thunder Bay is the 33rd-largest city in the country. Maybe show a picture of the Sleeping Giant once in a while, or show other communities across the country. You know that makes a difference, right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up, Mr. Pucci.

[Piero Pucci]

No problem.