Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 33 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

The Board of Internal Economy requires that committees adhere to the following health protocols. It requires that you maintain a physical distance of at least two metres from others; wear a non-medical mask unless seated, and preferably wear a mask at all times, including when seated; maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizers provided in the committee room; and regularly wash your hands well with soap.

As chair, I will enforce these measures, and I thank you all for your co-operation.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25. I would like to outline a few rules as follow.

Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You may speak in the official language of your choice. At the bottom of your screen you may choose to hear the floor audio, English or French. With the latest Zoom version, you do not need to select a corresponding language channel before speaking. The “raise hand” feature is on the main toolbar, should you wish to speak. I remind all members and witnesses that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be muted. The committee clerk and I will maintain a speakers list for all members.

Before we go to today's witnesses, I want to inform the members that the clerk has distributed version one of the draft report on labour market impact assessment. To allow members time to read the report before we commence this consideration, I have instructed the clerk to schedule witnesses to appear this coming Wednesday, June 9, and to schedule Monday, June 14 as the first day for consideration of the LMIA draft report.

Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, May 26, the committee is resuming its study of the economic imperative and long-term importance for small rural municipalities outside of major cities to retain new immigrants.

I would like to welcome the witnesses appearing before the committee today. Thanks for giving us your time.

Today, in the first panel, we will be hearing from Rural Municipalities of Alberta, represented by Paul McLauchlin, president; and Gerald Rhodes, executive director. We will also be hearing from Andrew Griffith, former public servant, author and commentator. He will be appearing before the committee as an individual. Furthermore, we will be hearing from Justicia for Migrant Workers, represented by Chris Ramsaroop.

All of the witnesses will be provided five minutes for their opening remarks, and then we will go into a round of questioning.

From Rural Municipalities of Alberta, we have two witnesses, but both of you can share the time. The total time allocated for your opening remarks will be five minutes.

Mr. McLauchlin, you may proceed.

[Paul McLauchlin, President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta]

Good afternoon. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the committee.

It's great to come from rural Alberta to talk about what I think is this critically important conversation today. Alberta is a province of immigrants. Rural Alberta is a province of immigrants. At the same time, it is our belief that all rural folks are rural folks.

I had a fantastic conversation with a gentleman from Pakistan, who was marvelling about rural Alberta. He said, “I have to get back to the spaces. I'm living in downtown Montreal, and I need to get back to the spaces again.” I think that's what we need to talk about. At the same time, what comes with that is a need for supports.

The fact is, Alberta right now is moving forward and is coming out with an immigration strategy, and we have talked to the provincial minister related to that, Mr. Copping. Two things coming out of that program are a rural renewal immigration stream, which is really looking at pilots for municipalities to get on board to see if we can bring in immigrant investment, and immigrant workers as well, and encouraging new residents to settle in certain areas.

The key message to rural Alberta is that we are alive and well; we're moving quite quickly. What comes with that is some depopulation, and we have some demographic conversations that come with this, so this conversation is critically important to us.

What I'm excited about, though, is the rural entrepreneur stream that's being pushed by the provincial government. The rural entrepreneur stream is really about encouraging growing businesses in rural Alberta and having a conversation with rural Albertans whereby you can actually look for the opportunities to be found within rural Alberta. Making those connections between local businesses, whether they're existing businesses or new businesses that have been created, is a fantastic opportunity. We have many businesses in rural Alberta, mom-and-pop operations or bigger businesses, and immigrant investment and entrepreneurial investment in those can really be favourable to rural Alberta.

We ultimately have a lot of programs in place for those supports, and that's the big conversation. Obviously rural Alberta has a different culture from some of the urban areas, so it's about ensuring that those supports are in place. That's a key message about what can be done to make people successful in rural Alberta

We are diverse and forward-thinking as rural Albertans, and one of the really big conversations is tied to the fact that we're looking at ways to diversify our economy, and our communities as well. Rural Albertan municipalities are home to 18% of the four million people who live in Alberta. However, we contribute to 24% of the GDP of the province of Alberta. Rural Albertans punch above our weight, and bringing immigrants into that opportunity and ensuring that we can leverage that is very important to us as well.

Really, the sustainability of rural Alberta is tied to attracting that qualified workforce, to providing community services and making sure they have programs in place to retain those workers, those families, those people who want to move to rural Alberta as well. Those community services are really linked to that rural economic and community development conversation. The funding for services makes municipalities as attractive as possible, and as surprising as it is, we need to look at rural schools, family and community support services and policing.

Interestingly, the conversation around immigration is tied to broadband. We have digital poverty in some parts of rural Alberta, so bridging that gap for broadband will allow the immigrants to move to rural Alberta and pursue opportunities there. This is essential to rural community building, which involves immigration, entrepreneurs and attracting a workforce as well.

I can talk quite a bit about specific Alberta programs, but I'm getting close to my five minutes here.

I thank you for the opportunity to speak today and will gladly answer any questions that are brought up by the chair or members. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You still have one and a half minutes, if you want to continue.

[Paul McLauchlin]

You bet.

I'll talk about two streams. The Alberta immigration nomination program, the AINP—people love acronyms—has two streams. It has a stream for workers and a stream for entrepreneurs. The Alberta opportunity stream, AOS, is a temporary foreign worker program that allows people to look for eligible occupations in the province of Alberta, and that's been successful throughout rural Alberta.

The stream for entrepreneurs piece is what I'm really excited about. It looks at the international graduate entrepreneur stream, and allows qualified international graduates from Alberta post-secondary institutions to operate businesses in Alberta as well.

One thing too is that the beauty of rural Alberta is that we have rural economic development authorities—again looking at diversifying our economies in rural Alberta—and immigration has become one of the pillars of that conversation. All of these rural economic authorities throughout Alberta are seeing immigration as a key pillar to bringing people in, to look for investment and for a strong workforce.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. McLauchlin.

We will now proceed to Mr. Griffith, who will have five minutes for his opening remarks.

[Andrew Griffith, Former Public Servant, Author and Commentator, As an Individual]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the committee for this invitation to speak to you on some of the questions that I've been asking regarding increased immigration in the short and the longer terms.

Canada is unique in the world given its general positive consensus in favour of immigration. Debates and discussions tend to revolve around the details, the levels, the categories, the requirements and the administration, rather than whether immigration is good for Canada. My critique of the large increases in immigration levels should be considered in that context.

Arguments for increased immigration are largely demographic based, given our aging population, but these arguments often fail to consider other factors, along with the global trend of a declining population in most countries. Moreover, evidence indicates that more immigration will not “substantially alter Canada's age structure and impending increase in the dependency ratio”.

I have both short- and longer-term concerns.

In the short term, is it really fair from an equity perspective to maintain levels of over 400,000 given the greater impact of COVID in sectors where women, immigrants and visible minorities are concentrated? How quickly are the hospitality, travel and retail sectors likely to bounce back?

More generally, will the current downturn be more like the 1990-91 recession and the scarring of immigrant economic outcomes, both in the short term and, in some cases, the longer term, or will it be more like the 2008-09 recession, which left immigrants largely unscathed?

I enjoyed listening to the presentation by the Alberta witnesses and their explanation of the importance of immigration in rural areas, but I think we have to recognize that only about 9% of recent immigrants settle outside our major urban areas, so we have to question how realistic the call is for more immigrants to settle outside our major cities and urban areas. While the provincial nominee program and the Atlantic immigration program have had success, most new immigrants continue to settle in the larger provinces and urban centres.

Also, more thinking is needed with respect to sectors and workers that are more likely to be vulnerable to automation, artificial intelligence and remote work. Will professionals such as accountants, lawyers and other white-collar occupations become increasingly replaced? What about the cashiers and Amazon packers? Also, will remote work lead to more offshoring?

Will governments invest in the needed public and private infrastructure needed to accommodate such growth, ranging from roads, transit, housing and health care to utilities and parks, as Doug Saunders argues in Maximum Canada ?

Canada also has difficulties meeting its climate change commitments: How likely is it that Canada will be able to do so with a significant increase in population, given likely further urban sprawl?

Furthermore, will the general consensus among provincial governments in favour of more immigration increasingly confront the reality of Quebec's reduced percentage of the Canadian population and thus increasing imbalance between population and representation in our major political and judicial institutions? How will indigenous peoples, the fastest-growing group in Canada, perceive more interest in increased immigration compared to addressing their socio-economic and political issues, which we've been reminded of this past week?

I raise these questions to stimulate a needed discussion on immigration to ensure that we consider both the benefits and costs in a manner that maintains the overall confidence of Canadians in immigration. Immigration is too important to Canada's present and future for these issues to be ignored and merits a full-scale review or commission covering immigration, settlement and citizenship. Any such review, of course, should include a diversity of views from those supporting increased immigration levels as well as those who have concerns.

I recognize that there is a risk of having these discussions, but there is an equal risk of not having these discussions nor raising some of these concerns. As noted, the worldwide trend is towards declining and aging populations. While Canada may be able to counter this trend in the shorter term, Canada also needs to prepare with a range of policies and programs beyond increases in immigration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Andrew Griffith]

I would like to thank you for your attention. I welcome questions.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Griffith.

We will now move to Mr. Chris Ramsaroop, representing Justicia for Migrant Workers, who will have five minutes for his opening remarks.

[Chris Ramsaroop, National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for providing us with the opportunity today to speak before this committee.

Justicia for Migrant Workers is an activist group based in Toronto that has been organizing with migrant workers, particularly farm workers, for the last 20 years.

To begin with, we would be remiss not to recognize the deaths of 215 indigenous children who died as a result of failed, flawed and racist national residential school policies. It is critical that we take responsibility as a nation for the deaths of thousands of indigenous children in residential schools, as well as the ongoing genocide that continues. We cannot separate or detach any conversation related to migration and immigration without understanding the history of this nation.

Furthermore, we cannot have an honest and thorough conversation about immigration within rural communities without acknowledging that, for over 54 years, Canada has maintained and recently expanded a system of indentured labour known as the seasonal agricultural worker program and the temporary foreign worker program overall, which enriches rural employers. It's a myth to say that these women and men who have toiled for generations are temporary labour. It's a permanent feature of rural communities that addresses employer needs and simultaneously dehumanizes and disposes of workers when no longer necessary.

This week alone, dozens of workers were terminated and returned home to their home countries. Several workers were sent home and repatriated for standing up against workplace injustices, including deplorable housing and dangerous transportation. Other workers complain about living in rodent-infested dwellings where up to 19 workers live in one accommodation with only two working toilets. Ten workers have died this year, with several of these workers dying during the quarantine period, which means under government watch. This is not a tragedy or an exception. A crisis will continue to persist until we address the systemic underpinnings of Canada's temporary foreign worker program, a system that perpetuates an asymmetrical power imbalance tilted in favour of employers.

This comes at a time when the agricultural industry export value has increased by approximately 14% over the same period last year and the number of TFWs in the agriculture sector has increased. Calls for the expansion of these programs, programs that are racist and institutional systemic practices, are unacceptable. It's a fundamental failure of government policy when people live and work in communities without the ability to engage in civic, social and political participation.

COVID highlights this as migrants, both temporary foreign workers and undocumented workers, were viewed as vectors of this disease, and local political rural officials demanded increased action to further surveil and criminalize migrants through increased enforcement by Canadian border services and local police agencies. Recently, migrants have been subjected to intimidation in rural Ontario where “White Lives Matter” posters have been placed, targeting specifically migrant farm workers.

Racism is multifaceted and multidimensional. Power is central to understanding how it manifests both in rural communities and in the operations of Canada's TFW program. A program that values Black and Brown workers only for their labour while denying their humanity is a blight on all of us. It's imperative that we get to the heart of this issue: tied work permits, the employer-driven nature of this program and the power imbalance where workers are disposed of.

For 20 years now, J4MW has been demanding systemic changes, something that have successive governments have failed to address. The recently announced funding for work permits for vulnerable workers and the pathways to permanent residency program is inadequate, as both programs have failed to address the deep-rooted injustices that exist for all workers.

As you develop immigration plans for the future, it's necessary that you heed our advice and that from both current and former workers. Canada cannot hide behind the mask or veneer of multiculturalism while perpetuating a system of apartheid. People across Canada and across the globe are keeping a watchful eye on our next steps.

There are four changes we want to close with.

The first is ending unilateral repatriations and debarment for workers. We cannot claim that there is a labour shortage while there are hundreds if not thousands of workers who can no longer work in Canada.

The second is equal access to social entitlements. Workers pay into our EI system, and they pay into our pension, but they don't have equal access.

The third is permanent status upon arrival. As I have been saying, we gave this beforehand to the Dutch and the Polish. Only when the colour of the skin of the workers changed did we change our immigration policies to say that they were no longer welcome as equals.

The final one is the right to organize so that we shift the power imbalance that exists in this industry.

Those are my comments. I look forward to questions and discussion during the answer period.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thanks a lot.

We will now move to our round of questioning, starting with Mr. Hallan for six minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I'll start my round of questioning with Mr. McLauchlin. I'm a fellow Albertan living in Calgary. I came here as an immigrant and a small business owner, so I really connect with a lot of stuff you were saying.

When it comes to some of the entrepreneurship programs that you said Alberta is introducing, in what sectors do you see most of those jobs coming in?

[Paul McLauchlin]

If there's one thing COVID has taught us, it's the importance of food security. At the same time, however, we are price takers not price givers, and you as a business person understand the realm that Alberta is in.

We are looking for value-added agriculture that is global in nature, so processing of lentils and all of the other protein alternatives, and at the same time value-adding to our whole agricultural sector.

There are fantastic immigrant folks who have experience in that. They can bring that knowledge to rural Alberta. That should really be the focus for rural Alberta, the value-added agriculture, and the brilliance of the entrepreneurs who can bring knowledge to that business and those opportunities, not just at the local national scale but at the global scale as well.

Hopefully, that answers your question, sir.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you so much for that. I have another question for you, Mr. McLauchlin.

Quebec and Ontario are also having these same issues. It's about how to retain people when they come to rural areas.

How do we retain them? What pathway do you see for that?

[Paul McLauchlin]

One of the views that has been taken by a few communities...There are some examples in Medicine Hat, Jasper, Red Deer, the RM of Wood Buffalo and Sylvan Lake. They've looked at inviting these people into their community. They're making it a community priority to be welcoming, and not just welcoming with gift bags and “Here's a logo”, but by welcoming them into the community. I've seen this. The Town of Ponoka has a fabulously strong Filipino entrepreneurial community, which has been embraced by the community.

I think that's the big conversation. There needs to be a way for the community to bridge that gap, by inviting people in and genuinely exchanging. It needs to be a community priority to be welcoming in the most genuine sense.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

As last question to you, Mr. McLauchlin, before I move on, what are some of the things holding back immigrants once they come here?

[Paul McLauchlin]

Well, it's really a situation where.... What is rural Alberta? The vastness of rural Alberta... I can probably speak to it as rural Canada. We are vast, and we should package it in such a way as to show what opportunities are here. When I talk about the farmland I own, in the perspective of other countries, I am a massive farmland owner based on the acreage I have. It's just really what the value is.

Really, dollar-for-value opportunities are available. Climatic opportunities are also here. There might be this view that rural Alberta is this vast snowy wasteland, but, in fact, it's a high producing, high value-added and high opportunity area. It's really packaging that opportunity in a way that allows people to understand how amazing rural Canada is.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Griffith, given the current immigration numbers that are being projected, especially for the upcoming.... We saw the program that just went by right now. Are you concerned at all about what we're already seeing in this mess of backlogs? What's going to happen to processing with all of these new announcements?

[Andrew Griffith]

One always has to be concerned about processing and announcements, because it's the nature of the beast, as it were. However, the government is probably reasonably comfortable that it can meet its targets, or at least make progress towards its targets. The processing capacity will be there, but that's looking from the outside rather than from the inside.

Are the levels appropriate in the current context, when you've had a large number of immigrants, visible minorities and women who have been affected and lost their jobs? Those are my broader concerns.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you for that.

Going on to some of the stuff you were talking about, I'd like to touch on one area. Do we have adequate supports when people come here, like resettlement supports? What do you see for that with the influx of more people coming in? Could you comment on that?

[Andrew Griffith]

Overall, Canada has very well-developed integration and settlement programs, probably some of the strongest in the world. That is partially reflected in how well immigrants do here. However, you have more people coming in and, of course, the demand will always be increased. We also know that you can never completely satisfy the demand. There just isn't the money, and everything like that.

We have to look at other ways to provide supports in addition to the in-person stuff, which is very important, and language training. Are there other alternatives or innovative ways of doing that? There may have been some experimentation taking place during the time of COVID, when people couldn't sit in places in person.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you.

You touched a little bit on infrastructure for when immigrants come here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Hallan, you have about 10 seconds left, so please wind up.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

What are your concerns about the infrastructure we currently have? Are we able to support people who are coming in?

[Andrew Griffith]

I grew up in Toronto and my experience is coloured by that. The subway network I grew up with about 20 to 30 years ago is largely unchanged. I drive through Toronto and I see the infrastructure hasn't taken place, so I think—