Evidence of meeting #34 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul McLauchlin  President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta
Andrew Griffith  Former Public Servant, Author and Commentator, As an Individual
Chris Ramsaroop  National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers
Lisa Lalande  Chief Executive Officer, Century Initiative
Piero Pucci  Supervisor, Economic Development, Thunder Bay Community Economic Development Commission
Emily Lauzon  Workforce Development Officer, Thunder Bay Community Economic Development Commission
Jon Medow  Policy and Research Advisor, Century Initiative

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Okay.

Ms. Kwan, you have six minutes for your round of questioning.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

My first question is for you, Chris, if I may. The issue that always comes back is that we can't really have temporary foreign workers come with landed status on arrival, because if they did, they would leave the community. I'm wondering what suggestions you might have to bring in the workers right from the beginning, giving them full status, and also supporting them to stay in the community.

4:15 p.m.

National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers

Chris Ramsaroop

If we look at previous components of our history, Dutch farm workers came in with full status. Many of them have laid roots in the communities. Many of them are farmers today.

It's about providing the settlement supports. It's about providing the resources. Every week I get calls. The angriest one over the last couple of weeks was from a gentleman who's worked in rural Ontario for over 30 years. He has 30 years of work tied to an employer, and he was asking when he will have the opportunity to live here as an equal resident. It's about providing the resources to support the infrastructure, and saying that these workers shouldn't be simply seen as labour. They should be provided with open permits and the ability to move to different places.

There was a situation with Trinidadian workers, as all of you were involved in trying to address, where workers were facing a crisis in the winter months because of the tied work permit process. Many of the workers, we have to remember, are skilled farmers in their home country. Whether we're talking about Guatemala, Mexico, Honduras, the Philippines or Thailand, many of these people come from rural communities. Their skills and specializations are in agricultural labour. It's time that we provide them with the opportunities to become as equals with us.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you for that.

Since the COVID exposure and the explosive report on the plight of migrant workers came out—though it's not as if those issues weren't already happening, but just that they were really brought to light because of COVID—have there been improvements with respect to that?

On the question about attracting and retaining workers in rural communities, what must the federal government do in that regard, especially in light of the explosive reports?

4:20 p.m.

National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers

Chris Ramsaroop

In our experience, no, nothing has changed. The structure of the program continues—the tied work permit. This weekend we were dealing with dozens of workers who were repatriated. Many of these workers have gone from a terrible situation to another terrible situation. The fact that we're able to use this program as a revolving door of disposable labour is unacceptable.

Workers continue to live under deplorable conditions. Workers continue to send us pictures of pesticides and chemicals in the workplace. Workers continually tell us about contractors and recruiters who are charging exorbitant fees.

I think it's about removing these hindrances, these unnecessary restrictions on mobility, and ensuring that they have access to EI and to our social safety net as equal workers. We need to recognize that, as I said before, these are rural workers from rural communities in the global south. They have expertise and knowledge to share within our communities. Many of the workers I've known have such a long attachment to the region. Over 80% of workers have a strong attachment to rural Ontario, rural Quebec, rural Alberta or rural British Columbia.

There are two mythologies. The first is that this is of a temporary nature, that it isn't permanent. The second is that workers are simply going to leave and go to an urban setting, particularly when they have lived in rural settings their entire lives here in Canada.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Should the government then be bringing forward an immigration stream with, in particular, different labour demands? For example, caregivers would be one that comes to mind. Agriculture would be another. Instead of relying on the temporary foreign workers system, we could create a specific immigration stream targeted at the workers that you're talking about, with the talents, experience and knowledge base they have, to bring them in under that new stream. We currently don't have that stream. Should we have that immigration stream now?

4:20 p.m.

National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers

Chris Ramsaroop

We have to value the workers from working class communities who have been coming to Canada. These are the workers who have been coming for generations from Mexico and the Carribean.

If we think about abolishing the program, my concern is that all of these workers who have contributed for decades will be left out, and we'll use racial ideas to try to exclude them. The challenge is how to create a system of permanent immigration status that recognizes, acknowledges and respects the contributions of workers who have already helped to build our society. It's about developing a stream of immigration that respects but also doesn't criminalize, racialize or dehumanize people based on racial characteristics.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Canada used to have an immigration stream that spoke to the full range of skill sets—what used to be defined as “high”, “medium” and “low”.

Of course, these workers that we're talking about today are essential workers in many ways. They help to put food on the table. They're incredibly important to our economy and our well-being on the whole.

Should Canada be bringing back an immigration stream that provides for a full range of workers?

4:20 p.m.

National Organizer, Justicia for Migrant Workers

Chris Ramsaroop

I think we have to acknowledge and recognize that we need to expand immigration policies, and also to understand the connection between the racialization of labour, particularly in agriculture sector. Farm workers have never been able to live as permanent residents. If we do go forward with this, it's about recognizing that skill and the value of the skill they contribute to our society.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Your time is up. Thank you.

We will now proceed to our second round of questioning, based on the time left.

Mr. Saroya, you will have three minutes for your round of questioning.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for their wisdom and for enlightening us with their views.

My question is for both Andrew and Paul.

I arrived here 47 years ago yesterday. I came to an absolutely white Canada. The immigrants have done very well, and so has Canada. I'm not sure what the voters said at that time, though I even heard the words, “Immigrants, go home,” or whatever the whole thing is.

The whole thing has changed. Most of the people who came to the country have done very well. They're willing to work hard. They're willing to do anything and everything. The cities have done very well with the new immigrants. We need to move the same thing to rural Canada, rural Alberta, rural whatever.

What can be done? We can bring the people in, but how can you keep those people in rural Alberta, rural Canada?

Either of you can tell us your opinion.

4:25 p.m.

President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta

Paul McLauchlin

I can answer very quickly.

Thank you for that. That's great: 47 years. You've seen the change in Canada as well.

Exactly: I think rural Alberta wants to prosper by immigration. We've seen that in the urban centres.

I think it's really about developing that two-way street. It's really about showing how communities can prosper and, for them, knowing that the cultural diversity they can experience in rural Alberta and rural Canada has opportunities for those communities to grow as well. Raising the awareness that those opportunities are available for both parts is great, I think, as is showing and really showcasing rural Canada as an opportunity for that immigration and for building those communities.

The fact is, I think that if you create that framework to bridge that gap, there are fantastic examples. I wish I had more time. The rural and northern immigration pilot- really is bridging those communities to immigrants and to opportunities. The YMCA of Northern Alberta is looking at settlement services for the Wood Buffalo region and making it more welcoming and understandable and making sure that they're having those conversations. I think there are examples out there, and really taking those successes and looking at them on a larger scale I think is an opportunity.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

I think I have less than 30 seconds left. I have a quick question.

The Atlantic settlement program has done pretty well in the last four or five years. Would that work for you in your case?

4:25 p.m.

President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta

Paul McLauchlin

I'll apologize. I don't know the details of it, but by every guess, though, as someone who has been in rural eastern Canada, I think it's a fabulous opportunity; so again, it's about building upon those. I'll have to dig deeper into those opportunities.

It was brought up, I know, when Alberta was creating their policy. That is a win and a successful program, and I have every expectation that it will be adopted under the Alberta provincial government in looking into the successes in that program as well.

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you so much.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Mr. Schiefke for three minutes.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank all the witnesses very much for joining us this afternoon.

My questioning is for Mr. McLauchlin.

First of all, thank you very much for being here. I'm going to say this at the outset, just so that my mother approves. She was born in Calgary. My grandparents, when they arrived in Canada, boarded a train in Halifax and made their way out to Alberta. Like many other newcomers, they made their way back to a large city—in their case, Montreal—which allows me to cheer for the Montreal Canadiens, so I'm fine with that.

That said, we're really looking at ideas, at ways in which the federal government—and all governments—can be more successful in ensuring that immigrants feel more welcome and are retained in the rural communities, which really need them for their prosperity and for so many other reasons.

I have two questions for you.

First, what role do municipalities have in ensuring that newcomers have supports and feel welcome and integrated, and what more can the federal government do in supporting them in that regard?

I'm going to leave all the remaining time for you to just share ideas. What's going on in Alberta, from an ideas perspective, that may be interesting and effective across the country?

4:25 p.m.

President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta

Paul McLauchlin

Thank you for giving me so much time.

As someone who likes to talk, I do appreciate that. I'm a Montreal Canadiens fan too. I'll throw that in as well.

I think the conversation really goes around where the energy is. Really, I think one thing that COVID has taught us—and we're still not there yet—is the importance of food security. I've said that already, but it's so critically important. It's so critically important for us to look beyond being price-takers and price-givers. The fact is that we can look to immigrants to be the source of ideas, the passion and the energy that can drive the opportunities.

Really, I think what comes with that is a conversation that is tied to “happy wife, happy life”. I cannot move to a place unless my wife is happy. For some of you folks, your spouse or your partner needs to be happy. It's not just a place. It needs to be a thing. It needs to have all of those services.

Really, when you start looking at education, opportunity and broadband at the same time, looking to the fact that you can actually be educated in any part of the world on any topic, the fact is that you can still live in a beautiful, welcoming community that's quiet and where you can still hear birds chirping—although I do know that there are birds in Montreal. The fact is, the lifestyle shift I think is attractive to immigrants too.

Again, I've met thousands of people in my life. You can tell someone who is “rural”. There are a lot of folks who want to go back to rural, and I am expecting that a lot of people will go back to rural in this change and shift in our population right now. I think rural Canada has been our past, I think it's our future and I think that if your immigration program concentrates on the fact that rural Canadians punch above their weight, you'll get the same immigration in those areas, with the same people with the energy, drive and ideas.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Thank you, Mr. McLauchlin.

Madam Chair, how much time do I have left?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

You are done now; you've had your three minutes.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Thank you.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

We'll now proceed to Madame Normandin for two minutes.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

Mr. McLauchlin, I will also give you an opportunity to speak.

One of my colleagues just introduced a bill in the House to give students who return to the regions a tax credit, and Quebec has already considered the matter.

Do you think a tax credit for immigrants could also be a worthwhile measure?

4:30 p.m.

President, Rural Municipalities of Alberta

Paul McLauchlin

That's an excellent idea, because I can speak again with passion about what it is like to be a rural Canadian, and I think two programs.... The self-employed farmer stream is looking for opportunities to identify tax benefits to attract folks to begin that discussion, to begin the ideas.

There is a foreign graduate start-up visa stream that is looking at economic immigration and tying that back to graduates, the immigrants with higher skill sets and experience, whether they're educated in Canada or elsewhere. We need to start to bridge that gap.

One thing I'm always concerned about is that we need to start to level our education systems and not use them in Canada as a wedge or as a disadvantage to immigrants. We need to start to bridge that gap. I've worked with engineers and scientists from around the world who have been educated in different centres, and we need to bridge the gap between our Canadian education system and theirs. That is critically important, and using incentives and that type of outside-the-box thinking is critically important to that discussion as well.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christine Normandin Bloc Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you very much.

I would also like you to talk about the role of non-profit organizations, NPOs, which seek out immigrants in large urban centres, bring them to our regions and provide guidance for those people.

Would it be a good idea to give them more support?