Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 1st, 2022

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The response is that these LMIAs absolutely must be done because the last thing we want is someone taking a job from a good Canadian. That's how it's being sold to us, and yet we're told that a million jobs are available across Canada. We're also told that we want get immigration levels up to address the labour shortage. The LMIAs should simply be set aside and brought back when labour market conditions change in Canada.

[Beth Potter]

I agree. I would absolutely agree with that.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

You talked about staff retention earlier. I know this doesn't necessarily pertain to the study, but I'd like to address it since you brought it up. We've yet to see any reforms done to the EI system, and a lot of people who work in the tourism industry are seasonal employees. These individuals are deciding not to come back to work in the tourism industry because they want to find a year-round job so they don't fall into the EI black hole.

Is that one of the reasons for the staff retention issue?

[Beth Potter]

It is one of the reasons. Certainly, seasonality adds a complication to the hiring process within our industry, but the other thing that I would point out is that tourism is a global sport, and we actually move our workforce around the globe.

To be able to bring in staff for seasonality, to bring in staff that follow the seasons.... If I'm talking about staff with special skills, like whitewater guides, they have certain skills and they follow the season around the globe. It's in the ski industry as well. I don't know if the temporary foreign worker is the best tool to bring those folks in on a seasonal basis, but it is the tool that we have right now.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but your time is up.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have six minutes. Please begin.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Thank you to all the witnesses. My first question is for Mr. Désir.

In our previous panel, the suggestion was that the government should in fact up the 4.4% target to 12%, so as to restore the missed targets over the years. Is that something you would support?

[Saint-Phard Désir]

Yes, this is something we support with the FCFA. The francophone community would like to see a higher percentage so we can get more francophones coming in to make up for the lower percentages we've seen in past years.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Just to build on that, the other aspect of it is that we have a large number of people already here in Canada—migrant workers and students, as well as undocumented individuals—many of whom would fall among francophone community members. Should the government be bringing forward an immigration measure to regularize those individuals?

[Saint-Phard Désir]

Certainly.

We've been calling for this with the Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants (OCASI) and the Canadian Council for Refugees (CCR). It would absolutely be important for those who are already here. It would be a very good thing to regularize individuals who are already here. It would even be a good thing to regularize temporary workers.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Bringing a similar question to Ms. Potter, given the labour skills shortage in the tourism sector, while I understand that you're pushing for a temporary foreign workers scheme to be expanded, the other reality, of course, is that there are a large number of people who are already here. Some of them lost status over the COVID period. Some of them are in fact from the tourism sector, and because of the downturn with the jobs and the closures that were required, they then lost their status. There are people who are ready to work, but because they don't have the status, they can't work.

Do you think that the government should be regularizing them? Should that not be a pool that we should absolutely try to target to meet the labour skills shortage?

[Beth Potter]

Certainly if we have a labour pool that is already invested in our industry here in Canada and ready to work, absolutely.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Would you call for the government to regularize undocumented and migrant workers, people with temporary status, who are already here in Canada?

[Beth Potter]

As part of a series of other measures we are applying for the government to do, that can be included, for sure.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

In that pool, there are in fact health care workers, caregivers who have come to Canada and undertaken the work to get their skill set to become a nurse in the health care sector. However, because of immigration rules, they can only work for that specific employer. They can't go work for anyone else. Therefore, they can't meet the shortage in our health care system. That's just one example. There are many people who are ready, willing and able to do this work, but unable to do so because of immigration issues.

I'd like to turn to Ms. Schemitsch on the processing delay issue.

One thing the government likes to do is say it will bring in new resources to target new applications, but meanwhile the people who already applied are stuck there. There's no focus in addressing that backlog.

To that end, what are your thoughts on that? What should the government do? Otherwise, all of those people who are already in the system, the 1.5 million people minimum, are stuck in the system, waiting and waiting.

[Laura Schemitsch]

Thank you for your question.

Again, I believe it's a question of transparency. The government is stating that it will address these backlogs through certain measures, but we see people who are submitting applications more recently than those who submitted applications at the peak height of the pandemic and who have not heard anything about those applications and have no idea of the status of those applications. Those resources, in part, need to basically provide more transparency about how the backlog is being dealt with.

If someone submits their application currently, in November 2022, how long is it going to take for that person's application to be processed, and then, how are we addressing those people who submitted their applications in March 2020 and are still waiting for a response?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you for that.

The reality is that, when the government makes these announcements, they say that these new applications will meet the target and say nothing about the people who are stuck in the backlog. There hasn't been any processing since 2019 in the caregiver stream, as an example. People are basically stuck there.

We are speaking about transparency. The reality is that it is opaque. The system is opaque. Should the government put in place an independent ombudsperson, so we can trust the information that's being put out and what's going on in the system?

[Laura Schemitsch]

Absolutely. I think it's very important that applicants are able to receive specific responses about their current applications. It is not enough to provide a status update tool or some other kind of generic tool. It is important that applicants are able to receive specific updates. If that means that an independent ombudsman must facilitate some kind of process to ensure that, then I believe it should happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but the time is up for Ms. Kwan.

Now we will proceed to our second round. We will begin that with Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Kmiec, you will have four minutes for your round of questioning. You can please begin.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I was going to start with Laura Schemitsch. Hopefully, I pronounced that right. I have the same problem.

You described in your opening statement an almost heroic attempt by the Government of Canada's IRCC department to clear the 2.6 million backlog. This is a department that has 30% more staff than it did in 2016. It has more than doubled its budget, and the backlog has continued to grow.

In your opening statement, you said that what was going on is jeopardizing Canada's immigration system. How do we square these two statements: your description and the fact the system is being jeopardized? What did you mean?

[Laura Schemitsch]

As someone who is a fairly new lawyer, my experience with Canada's immigration system has primarily been one of clients expressing their frustration and uncertainty with the system. In the past year, there has been a lot of advocacy from lawyers and other advocates asking for solutions and greater transparency. I believe it is important to recognize that the government is making certain attempts to improve the situation, while also being critical of some of those measures and the progress.

For example, while it is very possible that a modernized system will lead to greater efficiency, it is still important to acknowledge there are significant issues with the technology and basically forcing representatives to move to online portals that either have not been tested properly or have a lack of technical support. That is going to eliminate the progress that could happen through modernization.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

You also talked about streams. A lot of witnesses are talking about more streams. Would adding yet more streams to the system make it more complicated or less complicated?

[Laura Schemitsch]

It depends on what industries you're talking about, or what those streams would be used for as solutions.

For example, I do work in Whistler, Canada, where there is a heavy reliance on tourism. I agree with many of Ms. Potter's remarks that there are certain programs and/or processes that small businesses and also large businesses and employers have to move through to bring the labour force they need to support their businesses. Unfortunately, a lot of those processes actually create barriers to those businesses being able to get the labour they need.

Yes, we could create new streams, but it's a more complicated question than that, in my opinion.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Perfect.

Mr. Désir, in your testimony you stated that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada should have even more staff than they do. However, the department has increased its workforce by 30% since 2016. Even though its budget has doubled, the backlog continues to grow.

Do you believe that the department should be hiring even more staff, or is there a systemic problem in the department?

[Saint-Phard Désir]

You're talking about 2016; there was a pandemic for two years. I feel that had an impact. I don't know if that 30% increase in staff still stands. We would have to see exactly where the department is now, because my understanding is that a lot of people are no longer there.