Evidence of meeting #39 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was francophones.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko  Vice-President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Peter Bhatti  Chairman, International Christian Voice
Shelley Gilbert  Coordinator, Social Work Services, Legal Assistance of Windsor
Alain Dupuis  Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Saint-Phard Désir  Executive Director, Ottawa Local Immigration Partnership
Laura Schemitsch  Immigration and Refugee Lawyer, Race and Company LLP
Beth Potter  President and Chief Executive Officer, Tourism Industry Association of Canada

3:55 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko

If it's all right with you, Ms. Kayabaga, I'll keep my answer short on the new office in Yaoundé.

Of course, we're extremely glad that a new office was opened in sub-Saharan Africa, specifically in central Africa. However, we don't know whether the office is actually handling visa applications, according to the information we have so far. At this point, all we know is that the Dakar office is still providing that service, so it remains a major concern for us. We would like confirmation that the new office will indeed be handling visa applications.

One country processing visa applications for 16 other countries in the same sub-region is very little in terms of capacity, especially given the distance people have to travel. Sub-Saharan Africa is a huge region, so if someone applying for a visa to come to Canada has to get to Dakar from Cotonou, it can be a real challenge. That's why it's a serious concern.

If I may, I'd like to have my colleague, Alain Dupuis, comment on the 500,000 number. I know you were waiting for an answer on that.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON

Yes. Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Alain Dupuis Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

I would say that Canada's francophone and Acadian communities are very glad to see the immigration levels going up. That's fine, but the proportion of francophones has to go up as well, and that's the big worry. The immigration levels plan for 2023‑25 tabled in Parliament today merely has a footnote at the end indicating that the 4.4% target is based on the overall objectives—

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting, but the time is up for Ms. Kayabaga.

You will get another opportunity in the second round.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

You can please begin.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for taking part in this important study, which has brought us all here today.

I'd like to stay on the same topic, Mr. Dupuis, since you were on a roll. You'll have an opportunity to say more about it. Are you satisfied with the 4.4% the government announced today? You did say in your opening statement that you wanted a much higher target.

4 p.m.

Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Alain Dupuis

It's no longer appropriate to keep the target at 4.4%. That target was set in the early 2000s because, according to the 2001 census, the francophone community made up 4.4% of the population. Last year's report from the Commissioner of Official Languages indicates that, even if the government had wanted to keep the demographic weight of francophones at 4.4%, it should have set a much higher target at the time. It's 15 or 20 years later, and we are still talking about reaching the 4.4% target maybe this year or next year. The demographic weight of francophones has declined significantly.

That has affected our ability to live in French, to exercise our rights as francophones all over the country and to overcome the severe shortage of education workers. In education alone, more than 22,000 francophone teachers are needed across Canada outside Quebec to keep French-language and immersion schools going. That's a huge problem. We are in a crisis, and what we want from this committee and this government is to deal with the decline of French as they have dealt with other crises in recent years: make it a priority and tackle it with the utmost care and humanity.

That said, Canada needs to recognize that it doesn't welcome enough French-speaking immigrants. What we hoped to see in the immigration levels plan for 2022‑24 was more than a figure at the bottom of a big table every year, with the goal of magically reaching a 4.4% francophone immigration target. At the very least, the number of francophones to be admitted under each immigration program should be listed.

Better still would be the creation of a separate program for francophone immigration. Similar to the immigration levels plan for 2022‑24, a distinct francophone immigration program could include low ranges and high ranges, and set out terms and conditions tailored to the needs of francophone communities and specific measures to promote francophone immigration in French-speaking countries.

Obviously, fewer countries are French-speaking, so targeted approaches are necessary not only in sub-Saharan Africa, but also elsewhere. Efforts to bring in newcomers must address the economic needs of francophone communities, which are much different than those of the country's English-speaking majority. The whole approach to francophone immigration requires an overhaul, and a specific program is needed. We realize that the 4.4% target stands for 2023, but a new target is needed as of 2024, and that target has to be at least 12% in order to combat the decline of our communities.

4 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

For the committee's benefit, can you tell us whether the federal government has ever reached its francophone immigration targets?

4 p.m.

Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

4 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you.

You talked about programs, and the express entry program is meant as a response to processing delays. You mentioned it in your opening remarks. It's one of the main tools the government put in place.

However, the numbers show that 155,830 permanent residents were admitted through express entry in 2021, and only 2,980 of them were francophones. Just 1.9% of those admitted through express entry were French-speaking. How do you explain that?

You said that the government needed to put special programs—different programs—in place, and I think I just proved your point. Wouldn't you agree?

4 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko

Immigration measures have to be tailored to Canada's francophone community. The government introduced express entry, but as I discussed in my opening remarks, the government must do better than that. Action is desperately needed.

We appreciate being given the opportunity to speak with the committee and elected representatives, but what would be even better would be not having to call on Canada's parliamentarians, time and time again, to take action to meet the targets. What we would much rather is the introduction of measures to meet the targets so that Canada's francophone identity was protected and communities' needs were met, no matter who was elected to Parliament or which government was in power.

Our situation is critical, and the survival of our communities is under threat. Actions have to be taken, and those actions need to be genuine, robust and supportive in order to meet communities' needs. As you pointed out, 1.9% of those admitted through express entry are French-speaking. That's very little, and we expect more. The target has been 4.4%, but as Mr. Dupuis said, we are looking for a target of 12% starting next year, if possible. A significant increase like that would go a long way towards slowing the decline.

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Alain Dupuis

Express entry is being reformed, and that's good, but the only way to make sure the program works for francophones is to set a quota for the number of invitations sent out per year. Applications from French-speaking candidates need to be assessed as a separate category.

If the pool of applicants isn't big enough, the government needs to promote immigration to Canada in French-speaking source countries in order to attract people. Oftentimes, the express entry requirements for immigrants in the economic class are out of step with the economic categories suited to the needs of francophone communities. Express entry reforms should include the introduction of two streams.

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

There needs to be a category for francophone immigration or a separate program with the same requirements.

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Alain Dupuis

Absolutely.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, but your time is up.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. You can please begin.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations.

I want to build on this conversation. The government, year after year, has missed the target, yet the immigration levels just came out again with the same old target. There are no new initiatives attached to it, and there's no new approach to it.

Based on the historical record, do you believe that the government will actually reach their 4.4% target?

4:05 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Yves-Gérard Méhou-Loko

We hope so. We've come here for reassurance about the intentions of Canada's government and elected representatives.

Today, we are once again calling upon Canada's elected representatives to implement a strategy to ensure that this 4.4% target be reached by 2023, and in 2024, that a target of 12% be initiated to make up for lost ground, and significantly slow the the diminishing demographic weight of Canada's francophonie outside Quebec.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Given that—

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada

Alain Dupuis

I would add that separate programs are required. The mistake over the past 15 to 20 years has been to think that programs designed for the majority could function for the minority. It's not simply a matter of establishing a new target. All sorts of other mechanisms, programs and appropriate tools for the current circumstances need to be developed. The population bases are different and the needs are not the same.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you very much.

I was going to say that, in addition to the target, you need substantive actions. I'm glad that you clarified that.

If you have any submissions you would like to provide to the committee on what specific actions the government should take to reach that target, please provide that to us, so we can make sure it is incorporated into our report as recommendations for the government.

I'd like to turn now to Ms. Gilbert.

Thank you, first of all, to you and your community for the great work that you do.

Today, again on the immigration levels numbers, the government is actually reducing the number of refugees coming to Canada at a time when there is a global humanitarian crisis. Instead of, at the very minimum, sustaining those numbers, the government is actually reducing them.

Ms. Gilbert, I wonder if you have thoughts with respect to that. What will that mean for the backlog and delays in processing, given that especially right now, with the privately sponsored refugees, the wait time is at least three years?

4:05 p.m.

Coordinator, Social Work Services, Legal Assistance of Windsor

Shelley Gilbert

I think that is one of the concerns. Certainly there is a need for people to come for work purposes. We also know that many people continue to require the protection of the Canadian government and need to resettle here as a result of persecution in their countries of origin. We hope the Canadian government will raise the number of refugees accepted, and also recognize that many people apply under humanitarian and compassionate grounds considerations as well.

The individuals we work with very often come to Canada as workers at times and are looking for opportunities to flee violence and also provide for their families. We want to ensure that people who are able to come are able to understand and be provided with the information they need to make the best decisions to keep themselves safe and to ensure the well-being and safety of their children as well.

One of the most important goals of Legal Assistance of Windsor is ensuring that individuals have the information they need so that they can make those decisions going forward.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

In Canada, there are already over 500,000 people here as migrant workers or undocumented, which is to say, people who have lost their status for one reason or another. With regard to the immigration levels numbers, the government is silent on the undocumented workers or undocumented people who are here, and the migrant workers.

In your opinion, do you think that the government should put a laser focus on regularizing the people who are already in Canada to meet our labour skills shortage? That would include refugees who are here, people who came from a different country trying to seek refuge in Canada.

I'll ask Ms. Gilbert, and then I will go to Mr. Bhatti.

4:10 p.m.

Coordinator, Social Work Services, Legal Assistance of Windsor

Shelley Gilbert

I think that many of the people who are here currently and who have lost their status—for a number of different reasons—deserve the chance to make an application to remain in Canada. They have contributed and continue to contribute to our economy.

They also have many different stories and many different reasons as to why they have to remain in Canada. Many of those have to do with the extreme violence they were experiencing in their country of origin. Allowing people the opportunity to know about and to have programs that are accessible to them and that they are able to follow through with is a really important message to be given to government.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you.

Mr. Bhatti, on the question around regularizing the people who are already here, given that there are over 500,000 people who are either undocumented or migrant workers here in Canada, do you think the government should actually put a strong focus on regularizing them to meet the labour skills shortage?

4:10 p.m.

Chairman, International Christian Voice

Peter Bhatti

First of all they need to get the documentation as to how many people are here, and priority should be given to those people who have skills or talent in this country. Then they can make—

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Bhatti. The time is up for Ms. Kwan. You will get an opportunity in the second round.

We will now proceed to Ms. Rempel Garner.

Ms. Rempel Garner, you will have five minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.