Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 15th, 2022

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

I will take it on the record here that the UNHCR is not making a determination at this committee in the study on whether or not the United States is a safe place for refugees.

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I am not making that determination right now.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Could you provide some clarity on the UNHCR's position?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

Certainly. I'm happy to do so.

There are gaps in asylum systems in every country, and where those gaps exist, we provide technical guidance and support to help strengthen those systems. We have done so on a bilateral basis, sometimes privately, sometimes publicly—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay. I might try a different line of questioning.

How many refugees did the UNHCR refer to the United States for resettlement in 2021?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I'm afraid I don't have that figure handy, but we did make referrals. We refer refugees to be resettled in the U.S. annually, and we continue to do so.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Has the UNHCR asked the United States to increase its acceptance of refugees for resettlement?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

The UNHCR asks that of every single country that's a signatory to the refugee convention. It is the one thing that I repeat on a day-in, day-out basis, as do my colleagues around the world. We need more resettlement.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

With the UNHCR recommending refugees for resettlement to the United States, would it be right to characterize that the UNHCR has determined the United States to be a safe place for refugees?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

UNHCR would not refer refugees to be resettled in a country that is determined to be unsafe.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

I note that there was a report on activities of the inspector general's office, a report of the High Commissioner, which was tabled in October, so about a month ago. There were some fairly alarming statistics that have come up in previous Parliaments in this committee around abuses in UNHCR refugee camps, including 259 cases of sexual abuse and rape in UNHCR refugee camps—a 20% increase from the previous year.

I am wondering how the UNHCR can reconcile some of these figures when pronouncing whether or not a country is safe or unsafe for refugee resettlement, given some of the grave abuses that this committee has heard about within UNHCR refugee camps.

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I'm afraid I haven't had the opportunity to review the report. I'm sure that there are a number of facts and figures in context in there, which would be important for me to review before giving you an answer to that question. However, I can tell you that there is a zero tolerance policy for any kind of abuse, either within our organization or with the organizations that we partner with.

Beyond that, it's very difficult for me to answer that question because I haven't had the opportunity to review the material you are citing.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I would ask you to do so. I remember sitting here in this committee about seven years ago listening to recent survivors of the Yazidi genocide talk about the discrimination they faced in UNHCR refugee camps from the ethnic majority that was charged with running the camp and how it affected them. Those abuses stay with them today, and it's quite disappointing that the leader of the UNHCR or the representative sent to testify in this committee is not aware of these statistics.

What this committee needs to hear from the UNHCR is a commitment to accepting these abuses and also to moving countries like Canada and the U.S. away from suggesting that one of the safest countries in the world is somehow not a place where refugees can find safe harbour.

I would ask if the UNHCR feels that it is beneficial to the integrity of upholding support for immigration in Canada to see the Roxham Road border crossing continue to function as is, particularly with a 2.8 million-case backlog in the immigration system in Canada.

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I need to unpack that a little bit, because I think there were three questions embedded in one. I would like to correct the record: I didn't say I wasn't aware of the report. I said I didn't have the opportunity to review the report. Our inspector general's office issues a lot of reports, so it's difficult for me to answer on one particular point in a report that I have not had the opportunity to review.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I would ask you to avail yourself of doing that.

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

I would be very happy to do so if you would share the details—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but time is up for Ms. Rempel Garner.

We will now proceed to Mr. Ali.

I know Mr. Ali and Ms. Kayabaga will be splitting time. Mr. Ali, you will have three minutes, and then we will go to Ms. Kayabaga.

Go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us today to share their knowledge and experience.

My question is directed to the witnesses from UNHCR. What are UNHCR's views on agreements in which two countries work together to share responsibilities when it comes to welcoming asylum seekers and avoiding duplications and inefficiencies?

[Rema Jamous Imseis]

UNHCR has no objection to safe third country agreements or agreements designed to ensure there is responsibility sharing and regional approaches so long as certain safeguards are built into those agreements and minimum criteria are present, including things like ensuring there is access to safe and efficient asylum systems in either country that is a signatory to the agreement, and that neither country will return people to situations of danger. Those are just two of the criteria that would have to be present.

UNHCR has no objection to such agreements, which seek to improve protection and asylum, being concluded by two independent sovereign states.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Could each of the witnesses share with us if they think there would be any negative result if either Roxham Road were shut down or if the safe third country agreement were amended to shut the entire border to all irregular crossings?

[Janet McFetridge]

As an observer who is there daily, I will say that my fear would be that if Roxham Road were shut down, people would just cross the border at any place in the woods, in the fields and in all those remote areas. I think it would really be a safety issue. I say that just from my experience of watching it.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Does the witness from UNHCR want to comment?.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Ali, I think it's my turn now. Thank you.

Thank you to our witnesses for taking the time to be here, specifically for your compassion and for your very compassionate testimony.

What would you suggest the U.S. and Canada could do to better support asylum seekers crossing these borders?

[Janet McFetridge]

You're looking for a suggestion as to what the two countries can do to better support the asylum seekers. Did I understand that correctly?

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

That's correct.