Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number seven of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time, if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

Today we are resuming the study on recruitment and acceptance rates of foreign students.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to welcome the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.

Welcome, Minister. Thanks for coming for the second time this week.

The minister is joined by officials from the IRCC. I would like to welcome Marian Campbell Jarvis, senior assistant deputy minister, strategic and program policy; Daniel Mills, senior assistant deputy minister, operations; Corinne Prince, acting assistant deputy minister, settlement and integration sector; and Pemi Gill, director general, international network.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of our witnesses today.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like in a regular committee meeting. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Witnesses will have five minutes for opening remarks. During the rounds of questions, I will raise coloured time cards to the screen to indicate when one minute is remaining, then 30 seconds, and then a stop sign asking you to wrap up.

With that, I would like to welcome Minister Fraser. He will begin our discussions in this panel with five minutes of opening remarks, followed by a round of questions.

Welcome, Minister. The floor is yours.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone. It's good to be back and to be back so soon.

I will have a particular focus on francophone international students during my remarks, but I'm happy to take questions on whichever issue you'd like.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that I'm joining you here from the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Francophone international students are a key source of talent to help support Canada's future economic growth and counteract the country's aging demographic and shrinking labour markets. They also strengthen our ongoing efforts to reach the target of 4.4% French‑speaking immigrant admissions by 2023.

Our efforts to open doors to francophone international students are part of a larger study to increase opportunities for French-speaking and bilingual newcomers to settle in and contribute to our communities throughout the country.

Francophone and bilingual immigration is key to our future, and we advance this priority at every opportunity. In 2020, French‑speaking admissions represented 3.6% of all immigrants admitted to Canada outside Quebec, in comparison with 2.8% in 2019.

We're actively pursuing now the 4.4% target for French-speaking immigrants outside of Quebec. We have introduced targeted measures, such as awarding more points for francophone candidates in the express entry system, investing in francophone settlement services to support attraction and retention, and developing an uncapped stream for French-speaking essential workers and students in last year's temporary resident to permanent resident program, which resulted in 7,000 applications.

Immigration is a shared jurisdiction, and at least seven different jurisdictions have a francophone target or a provincial nominee program stream specifically dedicated to attracting francophone and bilingual talent.

International students are excellent candidates for permanent residency. We have increased our targeted efforts overseas to promote and attract francophone students and immigrants to Canada.

We've also launched the student direct stream, which offers an expedited study permit process in countries such as Morocco and Senegal. We're also looking into expanding this program to more countries—where we are able to—to make easier the process of applying to become an international student in Canada.

Our efforts are starting to have an impact, but I'm going to be the first to acknowledge that we're always going to have more to do. I'm currently examining additional ways to improve pathways to permanent residency, as was required by my mandate letter, for international students and for francophone candidates, including by developing more flexible selection tools through the express entry system.

It is enormously important for potential students—and for our country—that the Government of Canada and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, ensure that each application is treated fairly and without discrimination.

I want to assure members of this committee that applicants are always given the opportunity to provide documents and any other relevant information to support their application. A decision is made only after all of the factors have been considered.

Among the requirements, study permit applicants must show that they have the financial resources to pay for their studies and support themselves in Canada. Applications from non‑genuine students and the submission of fraudulent documents are also major concerns.

We've been taking steps to address this issue. IRCC engages in outreach with partners and at public events around the world to better explain our visa requirements. In particular, we've been working closely with the Quebec bureau in Senegal and Morocco, which I mentioned previously, to promote studies in Quebec for prospective students from West Africa and the Maghreb.

Although acceptance and refusal rates can fluctuate, I can say that the refusal rates for study permits issued to francophone candidates dropped in 2021 compared with the previous year, both within and outside Quebec.

We have a proud tradition of welcoming students in our country, and we're working to improve programs and application outcomes for students.

In several of my conversations with Minister Boulet in Quebec in particular, and indeed with several members of this committee, we've had the opportunity to discuss some of the issues, such as compliance reporting and proof-of-funds requirements. I'm always open to feedback and ideas on how to identify roadblocks—and to identify solutions as well—in order to achieve our goals more effectively.

To conclude, I want to again assure members of the committee that the government is committed to an equitable application of immigration procedures, in all of our programs. We will continue to assess all study permit applications from around the world against the same criteria, on the individual merits of each case.

I very much look forward to receiving the recommendations from this committee to inform the work that we're undertaking and to attract and retain French-speaking students, which is an important component of our broader strategy to grow francophone immigration and better protect the demographic weight of francophones in Canada.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My colleagues from the department and I would be pleased to answer the committee's questions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now go into our rounds of questions. We will start our first round with Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Redekopp, you will have six minutes. You can proceed, please.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for showing up here in person. I appreciate that.

I first want to raise with you the case of Edward Galabaya, who is in my riding. I've written on an urgent basis to your colleague, the Minister of Public Safety, who has issued a deportation order to Uganda for Mr. Galabaya. Mr. Galabaya is a gay man, and because he is gay, he faces an arrest warrant upon his immediate return to Uganda next week. He will go to prison.

Your government expresses compassion for gay and lesbian refugees, so I would implore you to talk directly to your colleague, Minister Mendicino, on this for me. Can you commit to doing everything within your power? I have a file here for you to look at.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Look, I won't pass judgment on a specific case. If you send the details to me electronically, or leave it with me at the end of the meeting, I'd be more than happy to take a look and specifically dig into the file.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you so much.

Madam Chair, I'll pass the rest of my time to Mrs. Falk.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here for two meetings in a row. I've sat on other committees where other ministers haven't made themselves so available, so I hope this is a trend and you will continue to make yourself available to this committee.

At our last meeting, on Tuesday, you shared with this committee that the department is back to service standards for processing times. What became clear and more evident to the committee is that this applies only to new applications. Minister, I'm wondering if you can clarify for this committee the expected processing times for existing backlogged applications in each respective immigration and visa stream.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

There are many immigration streams. It would probably take the duration of the meeting—and I'd have to rely on the advice of my officials—to get you specific timelines—

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Would you just provide them to the committee by March 1?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We'll provide whatever information we can on each of the specific streams and the expected wait times that are available. In fact, I'd point out that I announced a couple of weeks ago that we're going to be broadcasting the actual service standard times for programs on our website.

Right now, there's a problem because the service standard is reflected but not the actual processing times and, as everyone knows, we've been significantly impacted by the pandemic. We plan to proactively share that information, and to the extent that we can provide it to the committee, we will.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Perfect. Yes, if it will be online, I would absolutely—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting.

All questions should be directed through the chair.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Through the chair, I would absolutely appreciate it if you would provide any information that's going out to the community, or online, to our committee as well.

Through you, Chair, to the minister, what direction, if any, has been given to the department from you to address those backlogged applicants?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's to address the processing times and the inventory of cases as quickly as we possibly can. It's essential, though, to reflect on the fact that you can't snap your fingers and make things happen more quickly without resources. We have been working with the Minister of Finance, and have successfully achieved $85 million in the recent economic and fiscal update. We'll continue to pursue the resources necessary to expedite all of the cases in the inventory, to the extent possible.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

So is it fair to say that the government, because they have given a dollar figure, believe this will fix the situation? I'm just looking for direct.... I mean, we all know that if there's no direction given, through ideas of action and that type of thing, there will not be.... Is the department just hiring more people? What are the resources? We talk about monetary resources, but what are we actually doing to achieve the alleviation of backlogs?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Look, that's a really good question. To boost processing, 500 staff have been added to the department. The $85 million will have different impacts on five different specific streams. Work permits, study permits and PR cards are all going to be back to a service standard this year, and probably sooner than the end of this year. I can commit to that specifically. We're going to see improvements on proof of citizenship as well as on the processing of temporary resident visas. I don't have a specific, exact time at which different standards will be, but to the extent we can provide clarity, we will.

I want to point out that, in addition, some of the resources will be going to expedite the deployment of certain digital functionalities, such as the PR case tracker that just came online and the digital intake for 17 different lines of business by this summer. I could go on, but I don't want to take your time.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

I do know that in the announcement of January 31, it was indicated that the IRCC is expanding the use of advanced data analytics. I'm not sure if you're following this committee at all and the meetings that we've had, but we have heard serious concerns from witnesses in this study about the current use of the Chinook software in the processing of visa applications.

With these concerns about discrimination and lack of oversight, what justification is there at this specific time to expand the use of artificial intelligence?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I have one minute. If this comes up again, and I expect it may, I can elaborate more.

I do follow the committee very closely. I thank you for your work and for highlighting this. I have two points. One, we have to make a decision on whether we're going to embrace digital technologies in the immigration system. I think we should. Then I think we should take great care to make sure those are deployed in an effective and equitable way.

The Chinook system, however, is not a very complicated system that uses artificial intelligence; it's a spreadsheet. It's a Microsoft Excel-based visual aid that provides the same information that IRCC officers would otherwise have to dig into in either a paper file or eight different windows on a computer. We've seen an increase in productivity of 18% to 30% based on the ability to have all the same information on one screen.

To be absolutely clear, it's a human being, an officer, who still makes the decision on the basis of the same information they would have with or without Chinook.

[Rosemarie Falk, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Time is up.

I would like to remind all members that today the appearance of the minister is in regard to the study we are undertaking on the recruitment and acceptance rates of foreign students in Quebec and Canada. I hope everyone stays within the scope of the study.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kayabaga for six minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through you, I'd like to thank the minister for taking the time to be here and for responding to our questions in committee. I also want to congratulate him on what he tabled in the House this week on immigration.

My first question around the study we've been doing is with respect to African students from francophone countries. I know that our government has had a strong plan to increase francophone immigration across Canada. Given that 60% of francophones are in Africa, what are your thoughts on the rate of refusals for African students in French-speaking countries? Given the numbers we've seen, what plans would we have moving forward to correct that?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you for the question.

This is necessary to increase the number of francophone newcomers, in my opinion. I think that we can increase the number of international students if we have a strategy for international students from Africa.

When I look at the numbers, I think we have an opportunity to welcome more people who can bring talent and make immense contributions to Canada as students and frankly as permanent residents. When I look at some of the numbers, one thing I want to point out is the difference between students who come from African nations to Quebec and those who do not go to Quebec. There's a 2% gap. They're similar. Between students who come from French-speaking nations in certain regions of Africa and anglophone students who come from similar regions in Africa the gap is small, but it is about 5%.

There's an issue we can look at. It's not as big as I originally thought when I first read coverage on this, but when I look at it, I think we can make massive improvements, because the experience.... I mentioned Morocco and Senegal during my opening remarks not by coincidence. When we introduced the student direct stream, we saw a significant increase in the approval rates for students who came from those west African French-speaking nations.

When I talk to Minister Boulet or my francophone colleagues, they want me to do more because we have to protect the demographic weight of Quebec in Canada, francophones in Canada, and this is a grand opportunity for us to advance those ends.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you.

In recent years, Canada has been attracting a growing number of international students due to their confidence in our education system. Through you, Madam Chair, I'd like to ask the minister what his thoughts are on the proposal of extending the 20 hours of work per week for international students, particularly in this time when we're facing labour shortages in different parts of the country.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Before I answer, Madam Chair, there might be a bit of a problem with the sound that came through. I did hear the question, but vocally, not through the system. I'll answer the question, though, and if it's a problem, I'll let you know.

In the short term, I think this is something we need to be looking at to help contribute to the solutions to the labour shortage. We have not made an official decision, but I think we need all hands on deck to deal with the economic opportunity if we fill these jobs so we can have an even stronger economic recovery than we've already seen.

In the long term, I want to be careful, though, because it's really important that we issue study permits for people who are coming to study and not promote people who are seeking to use a study permit stream to come for economic purposes when there are streams that exist specifically for economic purposes.

There's a particular issue, though, that I'm deeply concerned about with students who might benefit from co-op placements or work-integrated learning placements. I don't want our rules around a limit on hours of work to jeopardize the learning opportunities through these institutions.

I do want to maintain a focus on study permits for students who are coming for the primary purpose of studying, but in the short term, I do think we need to look at every solution we can to help solve the labour shortage. I very much appreciate this particular proposal you've raised, but I need to do a little more thinking on it before we make a final decision.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Through you, Madam Chair, what are the minister's thoughts on including international students in the summer jobs program, as suggested by a witness from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, since they follow the same curriculum and acquire the same knowledge and expertise while they're in school?