Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 25th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I'd like to call this meeting to order.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 10 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We acknowledge that we are on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules.

First of all, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice, or Inuktitut.

Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for health protocols, which you are all very familiar with.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly, and when you're not speaking, please mute your microphone.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4) we are considering the main estimates today.

Joining us for the first hour is Minister Hajdu of Indigenous Services Canada, and her department officials.

In the second hour, we will hear from the Hon. Marc Miller, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relation; the Hon. Dan Vandal, Minister of Northern Affairs; and their respective department officials.

Honourable Minister Hajdu, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I can't say how happy I am to see you all in person. It's my first committee appearance not on Zoom in well over two and a half years, so it's great to see you in real life. I am looking forward to our conversation today.

I, too, am obviously on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people. I come from the Robinson-Superior Treaty area from the traditional territory of the Fort William First Nation on the tip of Lake Superior, so I am blessed to live and play there.

I am here today to discuss supplementary estimates (C), 2021-22, and the main estimates for 2022-23 for Indigenous Services Canada.

Joining me are Deputy Minister Christiane Fox, and Philippe Thompson, chief financial officer.

This past week we observed International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, World Water Day and World Tuberculosis Day.

Each of these days serves as a stark reminder of the impacts of colonization, historic inequities, and trauma that have had and continue to have such a significant impact on first nations, Inuit and Métis communities across the country.

The work of decolonization and self-determination needs our steady and unwavering commitment, a clear focus with equity funding and opportunity, and a shared vision of a healthy future for everyone in this country.

The Prime Minister has been very clear that working toward reconciliation requires the commitment of all cabinet ministers, so together with my colleagues, first nations, Inuit and Métis partners, and the public service, we are working to change our processes to better support indigenous self-determination, and the well-being and economic prosperity of all indigenous peoples in Canada.

This commitment to a process of reconciliation will help bring justice, respect and dignity for indigenous peoples, but it's not just good for indigenous peoples, it's good for all of us as a country and for all Canadians.

Since 2016, we have invested over $6.5 billion on infrastructure projects that include projects in housing, water, education and communities. The funding provided, through these supplementary and main estimates, is a movement toward reconciliation. I see these investments as a down payment on the work we have left to do.

The 2021-22 supplementary estimates (C) contain $648.6 million in new funding that will be dedicated to emergency response and recovery activities; the continued implementation of Jordan's principle; indigenous trauma-informed health and cultural supports; and medical transport in Nunavut.

For 2022-23, the department's main estimates are $39.6 billion. This is a net increase of about $26.1 billion, or 193%, compared to last year's main estimates.

A look at the increased expenditures for this year shows that many of the items relate to child and family well-being. It is clear from these estimates that indigenous children and youth are at the heart of what we do. We remain committed to improving their health, education and well-being. That is an essential part of our journey towards reconciliation.

However, no amount of money can reverse the harms that first nations children have experienced, or return the years of lost love and family that were suffered through the separation from families, communities and culture. Historic injustices do require historic reparations. Our shared goal is to achieve a settlement that can be delivered to families as soon as possible.

The fall economic and fiscal update committed to providing $40 billion to provide compensation for those harmed by the federal government's discriminatory funding practices and to commit the funds necessary to implement long-term reform so that future generations of first nations children will never face the same systemic tragedies.

This year's budgetary spending includes half of the funds to begin to address these historic wrongs. As mentioned, budgetary spending has increased by $26.1 billion, or 193%, as compared to amounts in the 2021-2022 main estimates, as a result.

The major changes include an increase of $20 billion for the agreements in principle that have been reached for compensation. These funds honour our commitment to provide compensation that's comprehensive, fair and equitable and that will help to provide some healing for those impacted by the historic inequities in first nations child welfare. We are working with all of the parties to put into place an approach that will best serve affected children and their families.

I do want to take a moment to thank all of the parties and the Honourable Murray Sinclair and his team for their incredible work and shared commitment to this process as they continue to work tirelessly on reaching a final agreement.

We've also committed to making significant investments to address long-term reform for first nations child and family services that will be sought in future supplementary estimates. There's an additional increase of $646.8 million for first nations child and family services and the continued implementation of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal's orders. This funding supports the implementation of the act respecting first nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families, which ensures that first nations, Inuit and Métis children and families have jurisdiction over their child and family services. Indeed, it follows the principle that first nations, Inuit and Métis people can decide what is best for their children, families and communities.

As I mentioned earlier, this week we marked World Water Day. I remain deeply committed to ensuring that first nations on reserve have access to safe and clean drinking water. This year's budgetary spending includes an increase of $2 billion for an out-of-court settlement to again compensate first nations people for the discriminatory lack of clean water access. There's also a net increase of $1.2 billion in this year's budgetary spending for infrastructure to make improvements in access to safe, clean drinking water on reserve. Communities have worked hard to improve water infrastructure by repairing, expanding and replacing infrastructure; strengthening training and support of water operators; and allocating additional funding for operations and maintenance. First nations communities and leaders have been clear—they need long-term support for water and waste-water operations and maintenance to prevent future advisories. That's why Canada is now covering 100% of the funding formula used to calculate these costs, up from 80%.

One challenge with lifting long-term drinking water advisories is that it's not just about repairing or replacing infrastructure. It is about running and maintaining the system after an advisory has been lifted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Minister, I'll ask you to wrap up.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Okay. I have so much more to say, but we'll get to it in questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You will.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I'll just say that the increase in funding for water will support first nations to improve water operator salaries, retain qualified operators, train new operators, improve or maintain asset condition ratings and ensure longer life cycles for water assets.

We of course have an increase of spending in health care, education and infrastructure since we know that the deficits are large.

I will just repeat this and end here. First nations leaders and members do know best what their communities need. We are committed to supporting first nations to independently deliver services. We're working with communities to help them prepare for the transfer of service delivery and are taking a holistic, community-based approach.

Thank you very much, members of the committee. I'm looking forward to your questions. This is a very important conversation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now move into our first round.

Mr. Schmale, you have six minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues. Unfortunately I can't join you in person, but I appreciate the opportunity to speak with the minister about the issues that she mentioned just a few seconds ago in her speech.

Minister, let's start with infrastructure, because you kind of ended on that tone.

I'd like to look at the estimates that are showing the amount of spending that is going towards maintenance of community infrastructure and construction, that sort of thing. Can you tell the committee specifically what percentage of those funds is going to new infrastructure, as opposed to maintenance of existing infrastructure?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much, MP Schmale.

I will just say it was disappointing to see your party vote against the estimates last night, because, in fact, this is what we need, we need to actually continue our investments in first nations' capacity.

I will turn to Philippe to speak a little bit about your question and the percentages.

[Philippe Thompson, Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer, Department of Indigenous Services]

We see an increase in the funding for infrastructure this fiscal year. It's up to $1.2 billion. We have received funding through budget 2021. The difference between what makes the $1.2 billion is we have a net increase of $1.1 billion that makes for shovel-ready projects, but also operation and maintenance. There is a little reduction in water funding. That comes from the sunsetting of budget 2016.

With regard to the exact proportion, I know my colleague from regional operations is on the line as well. I don't know if we have that exact proportion of what is dedicated to new infrastructure versus the maintenance, the operation, of existing ones.

I'll turn to Joanne Wilkinson, and if we don't have the answer, we can always provide that detail in writing.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Right, thank you.

Be as quick as possible, please. I only have so much time.

[Joanne Wilkinson, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Regional Operations, Department of Indigenous Services]

Absolutely.

We will follow up in writing. I don't have the specific breakdown with us today.

Thank you.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

No problem. That's a very quick answer. Thank you.

In terms of boil water advisories, how many are existing at this exact moment on reserve?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

We've lifted 131 boil water advisories since we were elected in 2015. There are 34 left. There are a number that are very close to being lifted and we're very excited to be able to announce those in the months to come.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I'm just curious, out of those 131 that have been lifted—and this goes to my first question—how many have come back online as boil water advisories coming back?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

It's a good question. There are some short-term boil water advisories that do result in long term.

I'm not sure about the interplay between the new infrastructure and the new water treatment plants, but perhaps, Mr. Thompson, you have that answer.

[Philippe Thompson]

Of course, this is a fluid situation. There are always pressures on water systems. Again, I will turn to my colleague, Joanne, from regional operations if she has more information with regard to advisories.

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Certainly a part of the goal, in terms of reducing the number of long-term drinking water advisories, has been preventing those short-term advisories, those between two and 12 months, from becoming long term. In that space we've also ensured 211 short-term drinking water advisories having been lifted.

In terms of the new construction, though, we'll include that in the breakdown we get to you from your first question.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Minister, out of the boil water advisories that have been lifted—and I know you mentioned 131—your party did promise in the 2015 election to have them all lifted by 2019. What continue to be the roadblocks in getting them fixed? I'm sure everyone would agree at this table if this were any other municipality or any other place, this would be done already.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you.

Again, we inherited 131 from the Harper Conservatives. I'm not at all defending that there are 34 left, but I will just say that it's important we realize where we were starting from.

I will say that for the remaining 34, there are a number we think will be lifted shortly. There are some that are very challenging, to do with the complex interplay between the geography of the community, the kinds of underlying infrastructure to deliver that water to homes, and sometimes access to land that's appropriate to build those facilities.

Each boil water advisory is listed online on the Indigenous Services Canada web page, with a very detailed outline of where the community is at in terms of the process to lift those water advisories. I will say that communities are working incredibly hard with Indigenous Services Canada. It's not a lack of money. Sometimes there are barriers in place that require multiple steps prior to the infrastructure being installed and working efficiently.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Why did your party promise to end them by 2019 if you knew the problem was that big?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I think it was a commitment by the Prime Minister that everybody in this country deserves clean drinking water. And, of course, there are some—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I think we all agree, but you promised.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

And we're going to honour that promise, sir. We are continuing to work on that.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

We're a couple of years late. Sorry, I'm getting a huge echo.