Evidence of meeting #33 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was president.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alexandra Schorah  Senior Legislative Counsel, Legislative Services, House of Commons
Émilie Thivierge  Legislative Clerk
Chief RoseAnne Archibald  Assembly of First Nations
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Vanessa Davies
Natan Obed  President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
Cassidy Caron  President, Métis National Council
Harold Calla  Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board
Chief Carol McBride  President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Chief Gérard Coulombe  President, Native Alliance of Quebec
Allison MacIntosh  Legal Technical Advisor, Native Women's Association of Canada

11:50 a.m.

President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami

Natan Obed

To clarify, the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami board of directors has not provided a position on this piece of legislation. We may have had conversations with the department and with officials within the department over the last three or four years, but that is very different from responding to a draft piece of legislation.

At first glance, there is nothing in the legislation that is against the principles that we are pushing forward with government, but officially we are not here today in any capacity to give a verdict on the draft legislation or to provide very explicit amendments to it.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you very much, Mrs. Gill. Unfortunately, your time is up.

We'll now go to Ms. Idlout for six minutes.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

First of all, thank you for coming here. Please feel welcome, all of you.

You have provided us with very important comments today. I realize that as indigenous people, we have had our rights broken a number of times. We never really do anything once our rights are broken. I read this legislation to make sure that our rights are protected under this new legislation.

I'm not sure if you have reviewed it properly. I would like to ask all three of you if you can answer this. Review the contents of this legislation and make sure it's properly written with respect to how you would actually understand it as legislation.

[English]

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

I suggest we start with Chief Archibald.

11:50 a.m.

Assembly of First Nations

National Chief RoseAnne Archibald

Thank you very much for that question.

The process of developing legislation, even if we say we are codeveloping it, it is always flawed.

We saw that with Bill C-92 for child welfare. We saw that with languages, and we saw that with the UNDRIP bill, and so there's never a perfect process in which everybody gets what they want, but we do, at the very least, expect to be properly engaged. In this case I, as National Chief, have definitely not felt fully engaged in the development of this legislation, so that's a problem. However, it was the regional chiefs and I who had a meeting last quarter and recommended that we actually go ahead with implementing—

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

I'd like to interrupt you.

11:55 a.m.

Assembly of First Nations

National Chief RoseAnne Archibald

—calls to action that would allow us—I'm just going to finish one sentence—

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

You're not answering my question, so I don't know that my question was properly interpreted. That's why I'm interrupting—

11:55 a.m.

Assembly of First Nations

National Chief RoseAnne Archibald

Okay. I'm sorry. I understood that it was about the legislation process, but if it was something else, I didn't hear properly.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

I was asking whether, when you are reading the current bill, you think it talks enough about protecting indigenous peoples' rights and how that would be monitored.

11:55 a.m.

Assembly of First Nations

National Chief RoseAnne Archibald

This particular council is not about indigenous rights; it's about a council to implement the TRC. It's to monitor and to ensure that the TRC calls to action are being implemented and that we do have a report on it so we know what's going on. To me, it's not a rights-based piece of legislation; it's more about the process of the TRC.

In terms of protecting our rights, I'm not sure what you mean by our rights. Do you want to be a little more specific?

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

I think that as indigenous peoples, we experience the deprivation of our rights more frequently than mainstream Canadians do, and I think that it's important that while it mentions UNDRIP, it would seem necessary to monitor through this council whether indigenous people's rights are being sufficiently protected.

You mentioned, for example, that the first nations Caring Society won that decision about first nations children's rights being violated. They are being discriminated against, and whose responsibility is it to make sure that indigenous people's rights are being protected? I'm just wondering if this should be one of those other bodies that helps to make sure that it is being monitored.

11:55 a.m.

Assembly of First Nations

National Chief RoseAnne Archibald

That's a really good point. Yes, I think that there could be, under this council, perhaps some kind of report, like a report card, that this council could undertake as part of its work, but in terms of the larger question around rights—first nation rights, inherent rights, aboriginal rights, indigenous rights— I think we require a constitutional table. We need to meet with this government. We need to finish the constitutional talks that happened in the 1980s, to talk about section 35 and to talk about these rights and how they are being neglected. We need a special table for that, in my view.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

You still have 35 seconds, Ms. Idlout.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

Could Natan and Cassidy respond to my question as well?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Yes, they can, very quickly.

11:55 a.m.

President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami

Natan Obed

In paragraph 6.2(b) of the UNDRIP Act, there is a specific obligation of the Government of Canada to include recourse and remedy within the creation of the action plan. That is what we are holding on to right now as the best possible place to create an indigenous peoples human rights tribunal and to address the many different scenarios in which indigenous people's human rights are violated or not upheld.

Noon

President, Métis National Council

Cassidy Caron

To your question, I think that there could be a really important role for this council to play. Part of advancing reconciliation from a Métis nation perspective is advancing the reconciliation of rights and claims that have still been unmet by the federal government.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

That brings our panel to an end.

I'd like to thank National Chief RoseAnne Archibald; Julie McGregor, director of justice; President Natan Obed; and President Cassidy Caron for their testimony today, as well as their opening remarks and their views on Bill C-29, an extremely important landmark piece of legislation. Thank you for coming today and giving us your views.

We will now suspend briefly as we prepare for the next panel.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Without further ado, we will begin.

We'll go until 1:05 in order to allow a full hour on this.

I'll remind our panellists who are joining us to use the interpretation buttons at the bottom of your screens for the language in which you wish to hear testimony. There will be questions that could come in English, French and Inuktitut, just to let you know ahead of time. If interpretation is lost, please alert the chair.

Welcome to the members joining us for the second panel. We have, from the Native Women's Association of Canada, President Carol McBride and Allison MacIntosh, legal technical advisor.

We also have Mr. Harold Calla, executive chair, First Nations Financial Management Board.

Lastly, we have Grand Chief Gérard Coulombe of the Native Alliance of Quebec.

We ask the witnesses to make a five‑minute presentation. Committee members will be able to ask questions afterwards.

Without further ado, I will invite the first speaker, Mr. Harold Calla, to take the microphone for five minutes.

12:05 p.m.

Harold Calla Executive Chair, First Nations Financial Management Board

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to acknowledge and thank the people on whose traditional territory we are having this meeting today. I would also like to thank the committee for the invitation to appear before you today.

I applaud the bill's objectives and I hope you'll give the bill thoughtful but speedy consideration. It's a big task. Reconciliation means many different things to many different people. It will require the collective effort and commitments of all of us, including our governments.

What I'm please to see is that Bill C-29 establishes an accountable and legitimate process that I haven't seen exist before, whereby there will be direct reports to Parliament that have to be responded to. I applaud that.

My question, when I read the bill, is this: Do we understand what we're talking about? Reconciliation in our context as indigenous people must mean we're talking about transformative change to the status quo. That will require legislation, regulation and policy changes over time. The indigenous community will require the institutional infrastructure that exists for other orders of government in order to be able to sit across the table as equals engaged in developing strategies to achieve reconciliation.

We need to recognize that it won't be achieved overnight. It will not be achieved through the efforts in Ottawa and the provincial capitals alone. It will occur through engagement, discussions and evolution, but it will begin in indigenous communities and flow from there.

It is critical that the process be supported throughout government and that the need for adequate and stable resources is recognized through statutory funding. Canada should engage indigenous communities now and codevelop a coordinated government-wide change management strategy to meet the challenges that will be faced in the transition to self-governing indigenous communities.

The reconciliation effort needs to respond to the need for modern-day governance and fiscal capacities at the indigenous community level. Free, prior and informed consent requires that communities have this capacity. Indigenous communities will move forward as they feel they are ready. We cannot force them.

For example, a lot of the work that needs to be done is being done by a number of indigenous organizations and institutions today. The council should recognize those and incorporate them in the body of work they undertake. For example, the institution that I chair, the First Nations Financial Management Board, provides services to over 300 Indian Act bands across the country. We've listened to our clients' concerns over the last 15 years and we are producing a report that we're calling “RoadMap” to focus on helping indigenous people see a pathway to eliminate poverty and a pathway to a life of prosperity through good governance, access to capital, economic development and exercising increased fiscal powers. We submitted some material to you today around that. You can have a look at it.

I recognize that the goal of this council is not to displace the voice and responsibilities of rights holders; it is to support them where support is needed and to inform all on the progress that is being made.

The preamble to this legislation suggests reconciliation. The context of this bill encompasses a recognition of indigenous self-government, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People, as well as the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, and, I would argue, section 35 of the Constitution.

However, the indigenous reality today is that the existing federal and provincial policies, regulations and laws that shape, define and govern the relationship between indigenous peoples and the governments in Canada and the provinces do not give indigenous people the recognition required to achieve reconciliation. We must then accept, as a starting point, that we are talking about transformative and systemic change in the relationship.

I believe there is a desire to see this in Canada. We have started by acknowledging our history and the harms done, and admitting that the current relationship is not only harmful to indigenous people but to all Canadians. To achieve reconciliation, it is important to accept that we are talking about shared decision-making and sharing the wealth that Canada has. I believe the council will be able to follow these kinds of measures and report back to Parliament on this.

I think it's really important that Parliament understand that this is what transformative change entails. I am not sure we appreciate that reconciliation is necessary to secure Canada's future economic growth and sustain our standard of living. Sustainability standards, together with environmental, social and governance reporting are impacting the ability of our economy to operate as it has in the past.

The international community is moving to improve consideration of the impacts and is doing this through reporting, so that stakeholders can evaluate which economic activities and companies are responding to the international community’s concerns. This will influence investment decisions and not only the availability of capital but also the cost of capital.

Canada is blessed with an abundance of natural resources, and indigenous matters are a real consideration within the international movement. Bill C-29 tells the world that Canada understands and is prepared to act. I look at this as an exciting time for Canada. If we can reconcile, we'll make our future more secure and filled with opportunity.

Thank you.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Mr. Calla.

We'll now go to President Carol McBride and Allison MacIntosh from the Native Women’s Association of Canada. You have a combined time of five minutes. Feel free to share it if you wish.

October 17th, 2022 / 12:10 p.m.

Grand Chief Carol McBride President, Native Women's Association of Canada

Good morning, honourable committee members, and thank you for inviting NWAC to speak to this important bill.

First I would like to acknowledge that we are gathering on unceded, unsurrendered territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation. I feel very comfortable here today, because it is my homeland.

Bill C-29, an act to provide for the establishment of a national council for reconciliation, is an important bill and one that NWAC has been waiting for. However, we are disheartened to read that indigenous women have not been included in the bill. Clause 10 indicates that the national council for reconciliation includes three national indigenous organizations, as opposed to five. NWAC is disappointed to be excluded.

This bill established a national council for reconciliation as an independent, non-political, permanent and indigenous-led organization whose purpose is to advance efforts for reconciliation with indigenous people. The bill responds to Truth and Reconciliation calls to action numbers 53 to 55. These calls to action are essential, since they will legislate implementation of all 94 calls to action.

As you know, implementation is the most important part of any measures intended to redress harms. The key areas for reporting under calls 53 to 55 are areas in which residential school abuses and colonialism are reflected in intergenerational trauma.

NWAC has a unique role to play as a member of the national council for reconciliation. For example, NWAC offers a missing and murdered indigenous women and girls lens. We offer specific expertise, tool kits such as culturally relevant gender-based analysis that accounts for intersectionality.

At NWAC we are custodians of programs such as Safe Passage. This is a community-driven, trauma-informed and survivor-centred initiative created by NWAC that tracks cases of missing and murdered indigenous women, girls, and two-spirit, transgender and gender-diverse peoples. This project is the first of its kind, led by indigenous people for indigenous people. NWAC is a unique, inclusive representative voice that ensures the MMIWG lens is applied.

Though Canada recognizes five national organizations, including NWAC, only three will be mandated to form the board of directors. Excluding NWAC from national discussions on the implementation of reconciliation is a significant rejection to the organization, as we are recognized experts on matters related to indigenous women and girls. The people represented by NWAC face high rates of institutional betrayal, incarceration, violence and abuse, all issues that should be central to discussion of reconciliation. An NWAC representative on the board of directors of the national council for reconciliation will ensure the process is inclusive and that the voices of indigenous women and gender-diverse people are considered. We are valued leaders, decision-makers and knowledge keepers in our families, communities and governments. Without our perspective, discussions are unlikely to consider gender-based solutions to ongoing systemic discrimination caused by colonialism and patriarchy. This is about equity and claiming matriarchal leadership.

In the Canada-NWAC Accord, Canada committed that they shall consider the distinct perspective of indigenous women and girls and indigenous gender-diverse people. Not including indigenous women in this instance will set a devastating precedent for this country and globally against the current backdrop of a proven genocide against indigenous women and girls.

Honourable members, NWAC is therefore requesting that the bill be amended in clause 10 to include one director for NWAC on the board of the national council for reconciliation. If the bill remains as is, the Government of Canada will have continued to entrench marginalization of indigenous women, girls, two-spirit, transgender and gender-diverse people in legislation.

With that, I'd like to thank you. Chi-meegwetch.Merci.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, President McBride.

We'll now continue with Grand Chief Gérard Coulombe, who is the president of the Native Alliance of Quebec.

You have five minutes.

12:15 p.m.

Grand Chief Gérard Coulombe President, Native Alliance of Quebec

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This morning, I will begin by speaking on behalf of my national chief, Elmer St. Pierre, who can't be here today, either in person or virtually, due to health problems.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin peoples where we are meeting today.

For over 50 years, the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples, or CAP, has advocated for the rights and interests of the non‑status, status off‑reserve, Métis and southern Inuit peoples. We have often been the only voice for the off‑reserve indigenous community, and we are the only group that can truly speak for that community.

Reconciliation has always been at the forefront of our work.

Today, more than 80% of aboriginal peoples live off‑reserve and in urban, rural and remote parts of Turtle Island. Their voices cannot be ignored.

For CAP's communities, this country has provided very little in terms of reconciliation. The fact that we are falling behind other aboriginal peoples is evidence of this. Lack of culturally appropriate programs and services have led to the further marginalization of our people who are the most vulnerable and who are already suffering historical traumas from residential school and colonial policies.

For years, the Canadian government has failed to recognize CAP's peoples and only after a 17‑year legal battle did this question get answered once and for all. Despite this victory, the government continues to divide and cherry‑pick those they want to work with. This leaves the majority of aboriginal people out and forgotten, and without access to necessary supports.

We commend the federal government for honouring the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's calls to action to create a national council on reconciliation. We support this fully. However, reconciliation cannot be just for some; it must be for all.

Bill C‑29, if implemented today, would further exclude our people. The bill states that “reconciliation requires collective efforts from all [aboriginal] peoples and … multiple generations”. With no seat on the council, this legislation politically chooses those the government wants to work with and neglects the voice of the majority of aboriginal peoples. If we are to truly have reconciliation, these exclusions must stop.

I'll now speak on behalf of the Native Alliance of Quebec.

I'd like to acknowledge again that we are meeting today on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin peoples, of which I am proud because it is part of my aboriginal ancestry.

My name is Gérard Coulombe, and I am the president of the Native Alliance of Quebec and a board member of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples.

The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples was never consulted or engaged in the development of this legislation. We have been left out of the bilateral conversations with the government on this issue, despite the Daniels decision and the signing of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples/Canada political agreement. Our exclusion from the council, as a national indigenous organization, is a political decision that is an affront to reconciliation. This bill discriminates against hundreds of thousands of indigenous peoples, represented by CAP. This does not honour the government's commitment to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. True reconciliation can only happen when all indigenous peoples are involved in the decision‑making process.

In closing, I'd like to say that the Native Alliance of Quebec is one of 11 indigenous organizations in Canada. The affiliated members of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples cover 10 provinces and one territory, virtually all of Canada. So we can say that the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples represents off‑reserve status and non‑status indigenous people, Métis and Inuit, across the country.

Thank you.