Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2022

[Michael DeGagné]

I don't know that the organization as it goes forward will be a member organization. I think that at first the members will be the directors, and we will establish it in that way. We're not looking for an organization that has, for example, something like a hospital board, with a broad range of people who are members.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You're suggesting that the established board of directors going forward will ultimately also be the membership. That will be defined as the membership. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Michael DeGagné]

Initially, yes, as it is with most non-profits, I would say.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

No. Sorry. Most non-profits actually have a membership that elects a board of directors.

[Michael DeGagné]

That's right.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

They are not necessarily the same group.

[Michael DeGagné]

They may not necessarily be the same group, but they can be the same group.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

They can be, but the way this is defined it could go either way. You've provided clarity for me that your intent is for the board of directors to ultimately be the membership.

[Michael DeGagné]

Initially, yes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. That's fair.

Now let's move on to the board of directors, as you started, which we have now identified as maybe the same group of people.

In the legislation, there's a provision that talks about how beginning the fifth year after the day of incorporation, we must have a broad definition of people on the board of directors. There's an application process from the first board.

Can you identify to me why there's a five-year delay on that requirement? Why would we not just do that right up front?

[Michael DeGagné]

I think initially, if we envision this organization as having a longer arc than just a few years, we would want to get established. It would give the organization an opportunity to engage with stakeholders. The stakeholders will have something to say about who they would like to see on the board.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

In all fairness, sir, this first board of directors is ultimately selected by the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations. I get the “in collaboration” language, but I would rather see that language be a little stronger to say “jointly” so you folks have more say, to be honest with you. Ultimately, he still has the final say in the process. Then the board of directors sets the process for the selection and election of future boards by themselves, as you just told me, because the membership is the actual board of directors. There's a bit of a process here that's self-perpetuating.

Then, after five years, we're required to have a broad base of representation, including women, youth, gender-diverse people and all these other groups. Why not right away? Why not right up front? Why do we not remove that and have the requirement to elect or select a first board with a broad base of representation from across the country and from different regions and spaces in our society, so to speak? Why is it five years?

[Michael DeGagné]

I think what we're used to doing is looking at a representational type of board. Let's face it. This is the way we're being driven in Canadian society generally with boards when we look at these things as a snapshot, so every group has to be represented at the same time on the first day. The problem is that there are so many different stakeholders in reconciliation that you would have a vastly larger board than the one we have now.

What we're saying is to be patient. There will be representatives from a broad cross-section of Canadian society at the beginning, but it's going to be done over an arc of time—every 10 years, let's say.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I'm sorry, but I'm almost out of time.

You're saying there will be, but in essence you're saying to the rest of Canadians to trust the minister, because he's going to select the board. Ultimately we've agreed that—

[Michael DeGagné]

No, [Inaudible—Editor] the board.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

—the minister has the say. He's going to select this first board, and now you're telling me it will have a broad base. However, that's not required until five years from now, so what's the assurance that this will be the case?

[Michael DeGagné]

You're trusting the board, essentially, once it's established.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

No, I'm trusting the minister to select the board.

[Michael DeGagné]

Yes, with us, with our consultation.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That's right, but we just agreed that he ultimately has the final say.

[Michael DeGagné]

I think what we're looking at is that we cannot establish a broad-based board on the first day. Then, if we look over the course of time, you will find that eventually everybody and every stakeholder will have a seat at that table.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I think the chair is going to stop me there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Vidal.

We'll now go to Mr. Battiste for six minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I would like to start off by thanking you for the work you've done over the last few years in getting us to where we are today. Looking at your description of the membership on the transitional committee, we have people from the friendship centres, people from the Métis nation and people representing the north. We're hearing English, French and indigenous languages. It's important to have that kind of diversity at a committee taking on this role.

My first question is about the relationship with the minister. Would you say you've had a good working relationship with the minister? Some people have tried to frame this as paternal, as if the minister is doing this big oversight. Can you give us a description of how the working relationship has been over the past few years with the minister?

[Mitch Case]

I'll respond very briefly, and then others can jump in.

In the work we've done, I think we've only seen the minister once, and then we were left to do our work. We were certainly supported by his office in coordinating things and all the work that needed to happen, and the staff behind the scenes were incredibly helpful, but there—