Evidence of meeting #44 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mary Jane McCallum  Senator, Manitoba, Non-affiliated
George Cote  Cote First Nation
Madeleine Redfern  President, Nunavut Inuit Women’s Association
Marie-Josée Wapistan  Innu Nation Representative, Quebec Native Women Inc.
Christopher Kulak  Father of Isabella Kulak, As an Individual
Marie-Hélène Sauvé  Legislative Clerk
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Vanessa Davies

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

I call the meeting to order. Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 44 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We acknowledge that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Pursuant to the House order of reference adopted on Thursday, November 24, 2022, and pursuant to the motion adopted that same day by the committee, we are meeting to proceed with the study and clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-219, An Act respecting a National Ribbon Skirt Day.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of all who are here today.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. Interpretation for those who are on Zoom will be French and English. We do have Inuktitut translation, but not Innu today.

I will give a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For those on Zoom, use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will try to identify you in the order in which the hands went up.

To help us with the study and clause-by-clause consideration of Bill S-219, we have the good fortune of having some witnesses here today. I would like to welcome them in person.

First of all, we have the sponsor of the bill, Senator Mary Jane McCallum. Welcome, Senator.

We also have some witnesses, two of which are with us so far. We have Chief George Cote of the Cote First Nation, as well as Madeleine Redfern, as an individual. We also hope to have Chris Kulak as an individual.

Lastly, we have Marie‑Josée Wapistan, Innu nation representative on the Council of Elected Representatives of Quebec Native Women Inc.

We will now get under way. The way it works is that we will offer each of the witnesses up to five minutes to make their remarks. When we've gone through all of the witnesses, we will have one round of questions from members.

Without further ado, Senator McCallum, if you are ready, I would like to propose that you go first, followed by Chief George Cote, followed by Ms. Redfern. I see somebody else has just joined us. Chris Kulak, you will have an opportunity to speak for five minutes as well.

Senator McCallum, the floor is yours.

11 a.m.

Senator Mary Jane McCallum Senator, Manitoba, Non-affiliated

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to testify today on Bill S-219, which, as you can imagine, is near and dear to my heart.

Before I start, I would like to let everyone here know that I worked with Chief Cote and Isabella Kulak's family. This is their bill. People sometimes say to me, “This is your bill.” It's their bill.

Through this bill, the ribbon skirt should be seen as symbolic of the wider indigenous culture to be celebrated. It also serves as an educational tool intended to combat the various forms of violence against indigenous people as well as convey to all Canadians the history of indigenous peoples' experiences living under colonialism in this country. This bill will create a forum for dialogue within which we can explore the dark side of Canadian history in ways that do not dishearten or shame, but rather inspire us to enact a process of reconciliation for ourselves, both within our communities and the wider Canadian society.

In Cree there are no gender-related words like “he”, “she” and “them”. Rather, it's all-inclusive. I used the term “indigenous people” to underscore the intended inclusivity that is inherent in this bill. Furthermore, this inclusivity is intended to transcend even indigenous people, as today the ribbon skirt is embraced internationally. Many non-indigenous people have adopted this form of dress.

The main focus of the ribbon skirt bill is to combat gender violence against indigenous people and the weaponization of the ribbon skirt to instill shame—in this instance, against a young first nations girl who was proudly wearing her regalia.

The intent of Bill S-219 is to understand the impact of violence against indigenous people, to celebrate the choices made towards inclusion, to facilitate dialogue and understanding between indigenous and non-indigenous citizens of Canada, and to encourage acts of reconciliation and relationship-building.

The title of the ribbon skirt bill is meant be viewed as inclusive to all people who choose to wear the ribbon skirt, regardless of race, gender, religion, etc. We know that it is not a pan-Canadian regalia; however, it would be beyond the intent of the bill and impractical to begin naming various items of cultural significance. The ribbon skirt was chosen as the singular item for unification and dialogue, as that was the item that had been weaponized against indigenous people.

The intent of January 4 is to highlight and celebrate the various forms of indigenous dress, regalia and culture at large, and to educate Canadians on their origins, use and importance. This intended reconciliation in action occurred this past January 4, 2022, when Isabella Kulak was joined by a young Ukrainian schoolmate who also modelled her own regalia.

They did this on their own. The community was instructive. What better way to embrace reconciliation?

Ribbon skirts themselves are meant to be worn. They're meant to be danced in, each skirt fashioned with uniqueness. They're a sign of pride, of spirituality, of taking back our spirit and of making ourselves visible. They're meant to empower us to be seen. The ribbon skirt will continue our healing and will continue to transmit our history. It is a way to give voice. As we collectively wear our dresses, we gather strength.

I want to conclude with a poem. This is from jingles speak to the healing, by Vera Wabegijig:

we carry our stories on our backs
sometimes stories are heavy,
weighing down, curving the spine
like trees bending from the northern wind
sometimes stories are shared
like seeds floating on a summer breeze
taking root wherever they land
becoming medicine from the earth
our stories take root
ground us in the earth
so we can gather the strength
to stand like the trees
and reach for sky

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Senator McCallum.

Welcome to Marie‑Josée Wapistan. All of today's witnesses are with us now.

We'll now go to Chief George Cote.

11:05 a.m.

Chief George Cote Cote First Nation

Good morning.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to acknowledge that we are on unceded territory of the Algonquin.

My name is George Cote. I am the chief of Cote First Nation in Saskatchewan. It's an Ojibwa tribe with a community of about 4,400.

I'd like to thank Mary Jane McCallum for bringing this bill to the Senate. I acknowledge all of the leaders who are here today, all of the staff and, of course, my people back home in Cote First Nation. Chris Kulak is online, along with his wife and, of course, Isabella. Isabella is the reason I'm here.

It really took a lot of courage for this young lady to do what she did, because to open the eyes of not only our community, but the province, Canada and the international community, and to show how proud she was to be indigenous, wearing a symbol with the ribbon skirt.... Unfortunately, the teacher she had at the time was ignorant of the culture of our community.

Forgiveness was given by the family. Instead of turning this into a negative.... Speaking with Chris and his wife Lana, after it broke the heart of his young girl, who went to school with something that she was very proud of to show her identity, which was taught by her grandmother, Stella Pallet, and her grandfather, Vincent Cadotte.... You can see the importance of how we have to teach our youth who they are and where they come from. In education, it's very important that we let other people know about our culture.

In the spirit of truth and reconciliation, talking with Chris and Lana, we decided to make this have a positive impact on our nation. We decided that we would have a ribbon skirt day and Isabella would wear a ribbon skirt, along with all of the women and her peers. They wore their skirts on a special day to acknowledge what she went through.

A ribbon skirt is something that our community and our ladies have been wearing in ceremonies. It represents a lot of issues with regard to what our people have been going through, with murdered and missing women, suicide and a lot of the addictions that are in our community. It's a way of us coming together and healing.

With the participation of the Good Spirit School Division, Cote First Nation and the Kamsack Comprehensive Institute, we decided to come together and come up with a day when this young girl, Isabella, could tell the world her story in a manner that was supported by her dad, Chris, and her mother, Lana.

I really appreciate this couple, who reached out to the chief and council of Cote First Nation to make this something that's going to bring the community together. It's not only our first nations communities, but also the non-first nations communities.

The senator talked about this young Ukrainian girl who stood beside Isabella, wearing her mom's dress that she wore when she was in school. It shows how much of an impact it made on her fellow students.

That's what we wanted to do. You'll probably hear a bit more from Chris with regard to how it made him proud that a young girl opened the eyes of the world.

We're so blinded by so many things, and racism plays a big part in our lives. How do we end that? We end that by listening to our children and by watching our children. They're so pure. Isabella was so pure, but her heart was broken. Coming together, we can heal that little heart.

When she saw the impact she made, not only in our nation but in the world, it turned her life around. It turned the family's life around. It turned Cote First Nation around, and hopefully it will turn the country around. Hopefully it will turn the world around.

I really appreciate the time and effort that the Senate is spending on this bill. We really appreciate it. We're honoured to be here.

I really thank you, Chair, for this time, and I'll just leave it at that.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Chief Cote.

We'll now go to Ms. Redfern, our third witness. If you're ready, you have five minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Madeleine Redfern President, Nunavut Inuit Women’s Association

[Inaudible—Editor]

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

I think you may still be on mute.

Hello. I think we hear you now. Go ahead, please.

Oh, it went back on mute.

11:10 a.m.

Marie-Josée Wapistan Innu Nation Representative, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Can you hear me?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Yes, but Ms. Redfern is speaking right now. When she's done, you can go ahead, Ms. Wapistan.

We're not hearing, so perhaps the technicians can speak to Ms. Redfern and see if there's something that can be done.

In the meantime, we will go to our next witness, Mr. Chris Kulak.

Mr. Kulak, I offer my apologies if I'm mispronouncing your name. Perhaps you can tell us what it is. We're giving you the microphone for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

11:15 a.m.

Christopher Kulak Father of Isabella Kulak, As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Garneau.

My name is Christopher Kulak, [Inaudible—Editor] Cote First Nation, Saskatchewan.

I'm very honoured to be here representing my family, Cote First Nation, and my daughter Isabella.

A great many things have transpired since January 4 and since our first ribbon skirt day at the Kamsack Comprehensive Institute. I remember the day that I got the phone call from the director of education—or the deputy director, then—Donna Kriger, discussing the incident and what had gone on. Donna was very gracious and didn't give me the impression that she had any disbelief in what I was saying.

We were immediately working on solutions. That really gave me some hope that this leadership in the school division was going to do something about what was going on. I remember how we were speaking about faith and belief. I remember speaking about the coat of many colours, and how the Creator made such a wondrous variety of people that we might have fellowship and be close together, learn each other's ways, learn to be tolerant of each other and love each other. These are all values that my family stands very firmly on. We have to be the change that we want to see in the world.

I'm raising seven girls with this in their hearts. I get the strength to do this as a father through my wife and my family's culture. We are just so humbled to be honoured in such a way and to stand for all the first nations and indigenous peoples that fought so hard and so long to persevere through racism and all the colonial measures meant to keep first nations people down.

All the knowledge keepers and people with cultural pride carried all the traditions on even after the potlatch laws outlawed all ceremonies. Those people are champions. Maybe many of them aren't here today to witness what's about to happen, but it's because of those people's efforts. With no recognition and no help, they kept these things alive in Pauline Pelly and Stella Pelly, and now on to my wife and her sisters, and then on to my children. There's a generational giving that went on, and the generational defiance against racism was a quiet defiance before. I'm so pleased that my daughter's unintentional activism has led to such a large-scale and positive outcome.

I want to thank Senator McCallum for her tireless work on this bill and her tireless advocacy for first nations people. I want to thank Chief George Cote for being such a wonderful chief, mentor, friend and leader of the community. I also want to thank this whole panel and committee for allowing me to appear as a witness. I'm so pleased and proud.

Kitchi meegwetch.

That's all I have to say. The best thing we can do now as Canadians is to really come together in a true act of reconciliation that makes the nation take note of the public sentiment and what needs to be done here. I think we are achieving that in this bill.

I thank everyone involved, including the technical people who worked so hard to help me get on this morning so that I could be here. I thank you for chairing the meeting, Mr. Garneau.

Kitchi meegwetch.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you very much, Mr. Kulak.

We'll now try connecting with Ms. Redfern to see if it works.

If it works, you have five minutes, Ms. Redfern. Go ahead, please.

I'm afraid we're not hearing you for some reason. I'm not quite sure what it is. We'll keep trying.

Ms. Wapistan, if you are ready to give your opening statement, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Innu Nation Representative, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Marie-Josée Wapistan

[Witness spoke in Innu]

[Translation]

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Marie‑Josée Wapistan, and I am from the community of Natashquan. Speaking in Innu—

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Just a moment, please. There's an issue with the interpretation.

Is somebody getting the English translation?

11:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

We are listening, Ms. Wapistan. Go ahead.

11:20 a.m.

Innu Nation Representative, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Marie-Josée Wapistan

Good morning.

[Witness spoke in Innu]

[Translation]

I am honoured and proud to be here today.

I am from the community of Natashquan, Nutashkuan in Innu. I represent the nine Innu communities that belong to Quebec Native Women Inc. One of the reasons I'm speaking in Innu is to show that our beautiful language is still alive and is an important part of our identity. Something else that sets us apart as indigenous women in this country is the ribbon skirt, which symbolizes strength, identity and pride. When an Innu woman wears her ribbon skirt, it radiates her strength and beauty. The ribbon skirt must be worn for ceremonies because it is sacred and embodies the woman's strength. She is shown more respect when she wears her ribbon skirt.

You see today just how much of an impact the wearing of a single ribbon skirt at a Saskatchewan school can have. The skirt brings us together and carries a message, one that crosses provincial and national boundaries, because the ribbon skirt holds the same significance for many indigenous nations on the earth. It knows no borders. The ribbon skirt is a very powerful symbol, as you can see. Its significance resonates with various indigenous peoples.

We aren't looking for just a national day. We want a day that makes it clear that the disrespect for our identity is no longer acceptable. Our girls and sisters express their identity by wearing their skirts, and as women, we want them to be shown respect. When we wear our skirts, we are also embodying life. Indigenous women are directly connected to our nurturing Mother Earth and all of her strength and splendour.

That is basically the message I really wanted to deliver to you today. I could have given my presentation in Innu, my language, and I can still do so, but I'm not sure whether my five minutes are up.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

You're actually at three minutes and 30 seconds, so you have a minute and a half left.

11:20 a.m.

Innu Nation Representative, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Marie-Josée Wapistan

All right. That is what I wanted to say to you today about ribbon skirts.

Thank you.

[Witness spoke in Innu]

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Ms. Wapistan.

Ms. Redfern, would you like to try to see if we can hear you?

You can hear us. Unfortunately, I'm terribly sorry we can't hear you. We would have loved to have heard you.

If it gets resolved, perhaps, before the end of the hour, we will have a chance to ask you for your comments, Ms. Redfern.

In the meantime, we need to proceed with the round of questions. There will be one round of questions, beginning with Mrs. Wagantall.

You will have six minutes.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Thank you so much, Chair.

It's a real honour for me, a humbling honour for me, to be able to be here today and take part in this particular session.

I want to thank Senator McCallum for the beautiful work that you've done in presenting this, giving credit to those you appreciate and love and doing this on their behalf. Thank you.

I have also the privilege of knowing Chief George Cote. Cote First Nation is in my riding. I have not met Isabella and her father yet, and I look forward to that on January 4. The invitation has been extended, and it's on my calendar. I'm looking forward to that very much.

I have to say, Chief George, that right from the first time I met you and those in your community, it was very clear that there was a sense of pride in who you are and a desire to be conciliatory and work together. My first event was going out to the first nations school there and talking with grade 4 students, as I thought, about Canada. Arriving there, I found out that it wasn't just the grade 4 students. Everybody was in the room, including parents, and it was an opportunity to talk about what we share.

The excitement in the room was real, and I had an opportunity to share things like the forum for young Canadians and that they could, as they got older, enlist and possibly be part of that. Parents were writing that down. I was honest. I said, “I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing here. What should I be doing to show my respect in the room? How do I tell who an elder is?” and this kind of thing. They were just so remarkable in interacting with me. It was a real privilege and a sense of belonging, I have to say.

I want to thank you for the way that you really brought me into your community and shared very real experiences there, the very good and sometimes the very hard.

I would like to ask you and Isabella's father Christopher a question. I'll just mention my background is Ukrainian. Seeing that combination here is very exciting for me as well.

I would like you to go a little further in sharing why you went the route you did and how reconciliation can take place out of a very dire and hurtful circumstance and bring the healing that was able to be brought because of the choices made throughout that whole circumstance.

Chief George and Christopher, if you would be willing, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Cote First Nation

Chief George Cote

Thank you, Cathay.

I remember when you and your husband came to our community and I took you around and showed you some places, our village, our school and our band administration office. It was really great to have you and your husband in our community.

This gives us an opportunity, as well, Cathay, with the Good Spirit School Division. It opened an avenue or a door in regard to the curriculum and its being in the school system. Since some of the communities or some of the schools don't know the background and the culture of the first nation communities that are in that district, we made an agreement with the Good Spirit School Division. It had been over 40 years since the last agreement was signed. This agreement gives an advantage to us to put our language, our history and all the things that we went through as a first nation into the non-first nation schools. There's also land-based training to bring the schools out to our community to give them some cultural activities that they can use, that they can participate in, so that they know what our children are being taught in our nation.

With Isabella opening up that door and with the teachers as well, we have a cultural room in the school already, and some of our elders go there to share stories with those who are interested. We're not trying to push it onto them, but here's an opportunity for us to let the non-first nation schools know a little bit more about us, as we learned a lot about the Europeans coming to Canada.

When I was in school, I never learned anything about my background. All I learned about was the Europeans, but now here we have a new agreement that we can put forward, and we're doing that in our school to learn more about our language. Our language was lost as a result of history, but now we're trying to bring it back and revitalize it. It's also to make all cultures, whether it's Ukrainian, Russian or whatever in that community, be proud of who they are and wear their attire any time of the day. It doesn't have to be just January 4.

Thank you, Cathay.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Mr. Kulak, do you want to add to that? We still have time.

11:30 a.m.

Father of Isabella Kulak, As an Individual

Christopher Kulak

Yes. Thank you for asking, Cathay. Thank you for being here.

I was a transplant to Saskatchewan. I grew up in northern Alberta in a town called Whitecourt. I grew up in a very busy oil and gas area. I came to Saskatchewan to build cellphone towers for SaskTel and I met my wife. We started our family, and I began my journey into indigenous culture as an outsider.

I don't know much about my background. I'm a Germanic Russian immigrant. My grandparents were the first generation to come here, and my parents were first-generation Canadians. I didn't have a cultural pillar to stand on until I married my wife and had my children. Cathay was speaking about the welcoming nature of first nations communities. If you're part of their community, you're part of their community. They've accepted me and my family. I feel like I have somewhere to be now. Chief George Cote and all the elders on the reserve have invited me to ceremonies and to participate with my family.

I'm so glad that this has translated into the education system, as George has spoken about, and I now have friends in the community. Non-indigenous friends come to ask me questions about how to get in touch with leaders on the reserve and what's involved in doing certain things on reserve land. A lot of people have lots of questions, and these questions weren't being asked before.

None of these conversations were being had, and there were lots of barriers and blockades up that were mostly visual and traditional. Communities stayed separated and individuals stuck with their own race of people. It was unacceptable, but there was no mechanism to get everybody speaking. Now with all this dialogue, all this talk and all these different levels of government involved, and school divisions...and especially to watch the children at school enjoy the cultural space in the indigenous room.... My wife Lana is the indigenous community worker for the GSSD here, and she's put a lot of energy, along with her colleagues, into making that room a safe space for everyone.

As George said, we don't push it on people, but when people sign the waivers to allow their kids to come smudge in the indigenous room and you see non-indigenous kids coming for spiritual support through that, it gives me hope as a believer and as a father that the wondrous variety of people the Creator made all may be seeing each other now as human beings and as equals.

I think the advocacy that my daughter displayed was definitely through the hand of the Creator. Nothing is by mistake, and the divine nature of what's going on here shows that the Lord is in all things and guiding us all here today to do the right thing and show some unity and some respect and to realize that our mistakes of the past can be righted and that we need to do the best thing for the youth of Canada now. I believe that's what we're doing today.

I hope that answers what you asked of me.

Thank you very much.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Marc Garneau

Thank you, Mr. Kulak.

Thank you, Mrs. Wagantall.

We'll go to Mrs. Atwin for six minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I've been very much looking forward to this day for quite some time. I'm going to try my best not to cry.

I want to thank everyone—Chief Cote, Senator McCallum, Madame Wapistan, Chris Kulak and your amazing family, and our other witness whom we hope to hear from as well.

It really is about unity, and that's what I'm feeling and that's what I'm seeing. This is such a concrete demonstration to bring us together, to bring our country together, to bring cultures together. It's nice to have some positive things to celebrate as well.

Chris, maybe I'll start with you. I can't wait to get our families together, to meet your seven beautiful daughters as well, and your wonderful wife. That's what this is about—it's bridging and making those connections. I'm also a non-indigenous person raising two indigenous sons, so it's really important and it speaks to this work of reconciliation and being brought in and respecting these teachings and finding yourself there as well.

You made a comment about making the nation take note, and I really feel that's what this does. It's one thing to have this incredible dialogue that's so critical for reconciliation, but to put it into something like legislation, to have a national day to recognize the triumph of an indigenous child who took an incident and turned it into something so positive, I think it can teach all of us some really powerful lessons.

I would like to ask you, Mr. Kulak, why you call her “Bella the Brave”. Perhaps you could share that and a little bit about how she feels about what's happening right now in her honour.