Evidence of meeting #36 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spam.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Janet DiFrancesco  Director General, Electronic Commerce Branch, Department of Industry
André Leduc  Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry
Philip Palmer  Senior General Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Industry

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Leduc. Thank you, Mr. Warkentin.

Go ahead, Monsieur Bouchard.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

I would just like to make an additional comment on the issue that was just raised.

When the consumer or customer of a business buys a car or conducts some transaction, such as the purchase of a house, and gives implied consent, that means that it's limited in time.

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

In that case, it is the consumer who is responsible for telling the company, for example, that he no longer wants to receive electronic business messages from it.

If you have express consent, there are no limits. So if I give my real estate agent that consent and he contacts me for the first time six years later, that's quite legal, and that is fine. It is then the consumer who is responsible for opting out, for removing himself from the electronic message list.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

So it's the consumer or the client who is responsible for saying whether he agrees to give his tacit consent. The business can suggest it, and it's entirely legal for it to suggest it.

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

That's correct.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you.

October 7th, 2009 / 5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

I would like to continue in the same vein, to be more sure.

Unless I'm mistaken, once the bill is passed, a business that is already in operation will have more opportunities than a new business because it already has customers to whom it can send e-mails asking them whether they want to receive information concerning it for the next 100 years. Yes, no?

On the other hand, a new business that decides to do that after the bill is passed wouldn't be able to do it because it would not already have established relations. It is looking for new customers and the easiest and simplest way to do that is through the Web.

Does that limit new businesses?

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

No, nothing here prevents those companies from having a website.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Then how do they go about making themselves known?

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

That's it, spam.

How do you make yourself known?

What is the difference between a legitimate business and an individual who is trying to sell viagra? That's not a way to... Trying to contact everybody on the planet in one shot: ultimately, that's what spam is.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Let's take an American business that isn't subject to Canadian laws. If it sends an e-mail across Canada saying that it has a new product—that it's translated into French—it will face no penalties and will continue doing business?

5:10 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

No. In our bill, there are penalties for those companies, even though they are American.

As Philip said earlier, they could be liable to civil actions—in the private sense—because Quebec consumers would say they didn't expect to receive that. Decisions made by the civil courts in Canada can often be given effect in the United States.

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Will they apply in all countries?

5:15 p.m.

Senior General Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Industry

Philip Palmer

Perhaps not in all countries, but in the developed countries. There is a committee consisting of representatives of those countries.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

So if I have a business and I decide to go to another country to have my advertising circulated by another business, I can do that.

5:15 p.m.

Senior General Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Industry

Philip Palmer

Perhaps, yes.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Then what's being eliminated?

5:15 p.m.

Senior General Counsel, Legal Services, Department of Industry

Philip Palmer

Perhaps I didn't understand correctly. It's illegal to send spam to Canada from a foreign country.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

If I go through another country that isn't subject to the act, I can do what I can't do right now, that is to say contact people whose names appear in my bank of names. If I have a business in Canada and I decide to have a new customer data base, I'll have to use the postal service to advertise. I can't do that?

5:15 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

That's not necessarily the case. I can create a website and enter into partnerships with other websites. I can also put advertising on other websites to refer people to my website, if there's no indication that should stop. Ultimately, the purpose of this bill is to promote that kind of activity.

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

That seems complicated.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Vincent.

Thank you, Mr. Leduc.

Mr. Rota.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to continue on this question. What could prevent anyone from hiring someone in another country to send e-mail or spam to Canada? What are the consequences of sending something to Canada from another country?

5:15 p.m.

Policy Analyst, E-Commerce Policy, Department of Industry

André Leduc

As in any other act, there are jurisdictional problems. As described in the bill, the spam has to be sent to Canada.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

For example, I receive e-mails from Romania that I can't read. I know they don't come from Canada, but what are the consequences for that company?