Evidence of meeting #54 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
If you recall, last year, we had a debate on cable distributor fees and fee-for-carriage, as they say in English. I received 700,000 signatures overnight.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
That means people are interested, that they are listening and following what is happening in government and at the CRTC.
4:55 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Absolutely.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
That also means that they do not necessarily agree with your decision. What are you going to do over these 60 days? Will you consult with the government?
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
No, we do not consult the government. We follow a public process. We will take steps to obtain briefs. Once we have studied them, we may or may not hold a public hearing. We will also review all aspects of the issue. We will study the briefs that claim we made a mistake and those that say we did the right thing. Further to that, we will make a decision. As I said earlier, it is up to us to find...
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
... balance, if possible. If not, we will have to make a decision one way or the other.
5 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Guay Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
You absolutely need to strike a balance.
Personally, I am fortunate in that I have high speed Internet at home. When I go beyond the number of minutes allowed, I get billed for each additional minute, billed to my account. You would like more billing. I would say that for the average consumer, that is too much.
We should not forget about the self-employed. There are many people who are self-employed currently and the number is increasing. These people are not millionaires. They work from home and will be penalized by your decision. You have to take that into consideration.
You should also take into consideration the fact that in many homes, high speed Internet is not yet available. It is not available in a number of regions and municipalities. It is not available in three municipalities in my riding. Those people will also be penalized. It takes longer, they use more minutes and they will be paying more. These are things you need to evaluate, that the CRTC has to take seriously and really consider. Will you do that?
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Obviously we will do that.
In response to your comment, first of all, if a person does not have high speed Internet, this would in no way affect them.
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Second, you said you were subject to a limit and that if you went beyond the number of allotted minutes, you had to pay. That would mean that you are already under a usage-based plan. None of these decisions affect you.
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Yes, but this decision has no effect on Vidéotron. It only affects small ISPs that do not have limits.
Vidéotron has a 40-gigabyte limit.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Merci.
Madame Guay, we're over your time now.
We'll go on to Mr. Braid for five minutes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the representatives from the CRTC for being here this afternoon.
Mr. von Finckenstein, just to start, I have a question with respect to usage-based billing, or UBB. Is one of the purposes of UBB, part of the rationale of UBB, to help manage Internet traffic?
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
As we said in our Internet management decision, if you have problems in contention, firstly, expand. If that doesn't work, then use economic incentives. One of the economic incentives is that the more you use, the more you're going to have to pay.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Okay. What evidence is there that Internet traffic congestion is really an issue, really a challenge?
5 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
We hold hearings and people produce and give us the evidence. We have the evidence in terms of the increase per year, per usage, per user. We have the total Internet traffic, and the various companies come before us and point out what they have to do and how close they are to the contention.... Now, of course, people rely on the evidence they give us. Other people appear before us and will contest that evidence if it's not proper....
But the explosion of the use of the Internet, and the increasing use of it for video, makes it obvious I think to anybody that the usage is increasing phenomenally. Is the capacity increasing at the same rate? That's really what it boils down to.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Is there evidence that congestion is an issue only at a particular time of the day?
5:05 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
That's one of the big issues. When this whole issue first came up, it was nothing to do with usage-based business, but Bell in effect wanted to restrict people who were point-to-point users, etc. They said that otherwise those people would slow down the whole Internet and people who use it for time-sensitive purposes, like making telephone calls or watching movies, would have the jitters, etc. For those heavy usages, we said, well, just a second, surely you don't have to block the whole day--that's presumably at peak hours, etc.
If you use our rule, if you have to block traffic or slow it down, etc.--for the point-to-point users, let's say--so that it doesn't interrupt others, then you can only do it in the most minimal way, the most pointed way, i.e, at the time of highest contention. You can't say that because there's a problem at five o'clock, I'll put a 24-hour reduction in....
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Very good. And surely there are other ways to manage Internet traffic. For example, software and technology itself can help to manage Internet traffic. Is that not correct?
5:05 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Yes, but there's one key thing: as long as it's non-discriminatory. If you use technology, you cannot choose who comes first and who comes second, etc. You have to do it across the board.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
Absolutely.
You've mentioned the explosion of the Internet. You also mentioned in your presentation that 14% of users represent 80% of the Internet traffic. But surely no one would consider that to be a static number with the explosion of the Internet, the emergence of the digital age, the streaming of video onto our BlackBerrys, and the watching of TV on the Internet.
That number will dramatically change and shift, and very soon, in the very near future. Should decisions of the CRTC not be forward looking? Should they not consider and anticipate the direction that technology is going in?
5:05 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
If you can tell me how to do it, I'd gladly do it.
We always do it on the best available data. By definition, the data is old by the time I give it to you. We try to be prospective. We try to look forward. We try to spot trends, to anticipate, and to take that in, etc., but it is not a science. There are an awful lot of assumptions that you have to make, and you can be dreadfully wrong, as you know--in the Internet business especially.