Evidence of meeting #47 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Knubley  Deputy Minister, Department of Industry

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

The information from the estimates, the listing of transfer payments, indicates that it's $7.5 million, and that in the previous fiscal year of 2014-15 it was $22.5 million. Is that right?

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Industry

John Knubley

I believe that's correct. The fluctuations are really based on Genome's cashflow requirements. Specifically, in budget 2008 there was a minus $0.2 million drop; in budget 2010 there was a $7.3 million positive increase; and then in budget 2012 there was a drop of $15 million, which I think gives you the number you quoted.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

At a recent committee meeting, my friend Mr. Carmichael asked a witness about personalized medicine being an area that will be disruptive. In answer, Dr. Danial Wayner said:

The genomics era allows us to understand the machinery that is responsible for our health, our welfare, and our well-being.

He went on to say this:

There are huge social issues related to somebody else having my entire genome in their hands, but those are the types of advances we'll see over the next decade or two or three. I think that will fundamentally change the way we approach health care and wellness.

In light of that testimony, Minister, why are you cutting two-thirds of Genome Canada's funding? Whether you call it cashflow or whatever, the estimates indicate that you're cutting it by two-thirds.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

No. Since we formed the government in 2006 we have increased funding to Genome Canada. Let me go back to the beginning of your question. This is a huge part of science and medicine. I know this personally very well. My son has a genetic challenge, and for families to get a diagnosis is incredibly expensive. I know this personally. To get genetic research done, and to be able to have a sense of the horizon of your child's health, and to know what's coming is really important for families. That's funded in part through the Government of Canada, but it's principally led by the provinces and across Canada in 13 provinces and territories. It's a patchwork of what gets funded and what does not get funded in terms of genetic research. You mentioned the personal dynamic on a personal basis. I've worked, for example, in British Columbia with our health minister out there, Terry Lake, to try to get it covered by our MSP—

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Minister, I want you to know that I hope it goes well for you with the situation in your family. I wish you the very best with that. If you'd allow me to go on to the next question.

In relation to the 2015-16 report on plans and priorities, it indicates the planned spending for science and technology partnerships—which happened to include the transfers to Genome, by the way—for 2015-16 are $298 million, whereas the planned spending for 2017-18 is what? It drops from $298 million to...?

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Offhand, I don't know.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

To $189 million. That's a substantial cut to science and technology partnerships.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Geoff, you know how budgeting works. There are supplementary estimates that will come in the fall that backstop those investments. Also, I think you're segmenting in specific areas and you're leaving out things, for example, like the brand new investments in things like the Canada first research excellence fund.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Wouldn't you agree this highlights the need to have a little more transparency in the process so people can figure out where the money is going?

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

No, I think it highlights a better understanding of members of parliament to know how the process works.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Has Industry Canada done any analysis on the impact of cutting a third of the funding from this program for science and technology partnerships, and will you provide that analysis to the committee?

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I don't agree with the premise, but I'm sure Mr. Holder will be glad to come and talk to you about our increased investments.

Geoff, as you know, when the budget comes out, there's always a torrent of quotes about the budget: it's good, it's okay, it's awful.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

It contains very little information, as you know.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I can tell you, for example, in the U15 Group of Canadian Research Universities across the country there is broad-based, widespread support and endorsement of this government because of our increased investment in scientific research and discovery.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

That's all the time we have, gentlemen.

Thank you very much.

Now we'll move on to Madam Gallant.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, while the depreciation of our dollar compared to other currencies is very helpful to the exporting businesses in Canada, it is quite challenging to businesses that must purchase major equipment. You mentioned that the accelerated capital cost allowance is being extended. What sectors are restricted from accessing this tax reduction?

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

The support for investment in equipment is broad based across the country. Who would be exempt from that? To be honest, I think it's more of a CRA question and a Finance question than ours. It's broad in scope in terms of its application and if we talk to people like Jay Myers of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters about the design of the program.... As you know, it's been on a two-year renewal basis for years, and now we have a 10-year window. In each of those two-year renewals we've always adjusted the terms and conditions to try to make it as broad based as possible. You're quite right that we do want to make sure that for firms who are looking to upgrade their equipment and to make intensive capital investments in their firms—given where the dollar is now, I think it's 81¢ or so, and where it has been over the past few months—they take as wide a window as possible in upgrading their capacities to make themselves more competitive.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Is there any increase in jobs? Have you measured that in comparison to the taxes that have been reduced? We have this initiative, and as a consequence of reducing taxes are we generating more jobs because of this equipment coming in?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

It's not a post hoc ergo propter hoc—the rooster crows and the sun rises, so according to the rooster, it causes the sun to rise—situation. There's no direct line on a graph we can point to. But it's self-evident that firms that are able to upgrade their equipment and expand their capacity and to invest in their capacity over the fullness of time will become more efficient, get their products to market at a more competitive price point, and be able to expand and to sell their products around the world. We know that the Americans are doing this. We know that our European competitors are doing this. We want to make sure that we have the tools in the hands of firms.

It's so critical, by the way, as a tax tool for investment. As an example, I was with Premier Clark in Vancouver last week. As I pointed out, we've opened up the door for the LNG industry in British Columbia with this public policy in this year's budget. There are 19 LNG projects on the table in British Columbia. Not all of them will go forward, but we hope that some of them will. But for Petronas this is possibly a $36 billion investment for my province, British Columbia. Whether or not that investment goes forward at all is in part based on whether or not they would have this competitive tool. So this standing up of an entire industry and a $36 billion investment in one project could be lost if we didn't have this investment and this provision in this year's budget. There enough is a reason to support Bill C-59.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

How is the Canadian Space Agency being encouraged to utilize Canadian technology and encourage innovation?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Sylvain Laporte, the new president of the Canadian Space Agency, was just appointed back in April. He's there for a five-year term. This was the principal driving force—there were a couple of them, actually—for the Emerson reports on space policy. Within CSA he is working with the private sector, the aerospace and space industries associations, to ensure they are fully involved in CSA's planning, because it doesn't do a great deal of good, for example, to be partnered with the 30-metre telescope unless you're funded. In this year's budget, there's a $243 million investment by the Government of Canada over the coming 10 years. We want to ensure that there will be some reciprocity for that kind of investment for a globally critical piece of scientific infrastructure. So Canadian firms will be getting the lion's share of that money coming back to Canada in foreign investment. CSA has an entire division within their shop devoted to partnering with industry to make sure that they see economic benefit from our legacy space budgets.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Thank you, Minister.

I now give the floor to Ms. Papillon.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Five years after the long form census was abolished, the worst fears expressed by the scientific community have been confirmed. The government's decision to scrap the long form census not only deprives researchers of reliable data, but also deprives governments of essential references for public policy development, especially in terms of minorities.

Could you at least recognize that the replacement for the mandatory long form census is less accurate and more costly?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I don't agree with you. I think Wayne Smith, the chief statistician, has testified before the committee.

Mr. Chair, has Mr. Smith appeared before this committee?

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

That's correct.