Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you both for coming with detailed information for us. We are trying to get to the bottom of what's fair, not just fair use but fair in terms of legislation.
Mr. Masse mentioned earlier that when it ends up in court, that means we haven't done our job. We've had 21 hearings since the new legislation has come in. What was the relationship before that? Did you have hearings? You're both involved with litigation right now, both of your organizations. It's a class action in one case, and in another case, the litigation is against licences that weren't being paid.
What was it like before this legislation? Was it better or worse?