Evidence of meeting #120 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was songwriters.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
I think you should be asking those communities, because they're very clear on what they need.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
That's a fair statement. We've heard that.
Does anybody else want to chip in?
Alan, I want to ask about your membership. In 2012, what was your membership and what is your membership now?
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
It's slightly lower, but in Canada we've stayed approximately around 17,000 over the last several years.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
That's what I'm interested in, your membership.
To the rest of you, what is your membership between 2012 and now?
4:45 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Our members are included in the American Federation of Musicians. There are 3,000 of us, but we are part of its 17,000 members.
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
We have about 50 members, but the really interesting thing is that there's been some new Canadian independent companies that have emerged over the last 12 years, and we're very excited about that, despite all this disruption.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
So you've grown. Do you know what your numbers were in 2012?
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
The revenues for our members with Canadian offices have grown by $120 million from $80 million in that period, mostly, as I said, looking at the export market.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I know YouTube has been mentioned. I think of Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber used it as a tool to get noticed and was very successful. However, we know that's happening for new artists. They're looking at these platforms that are out there to get noticed. Sometimes when they get famous, they have a concern that those same platforms are infringing on their copyright. I know Justin Bieber gave permission to get out there, but you take a look at some of these devices that are there now and they can record an entire performance easily disguised and held. Back in the day, when we were younger, you had to take a big camera in to try to do that—not that I would suggest anyone did it.
How are the various revenue streams that the new artists in particular...? What are they looking at for revenue steams and how to make money?
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
As we said earlier, it's changed now from selling CDs with a label and having a portion of that and the true revenue to now hoping that they do get noticed, hoping that they do get a few million hits on YouTube, and hoping that they are streamed a lot and they can go on tour and sell T-shirts. For live bands like that, it has really gotten tough.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Is that for the small, new person and also the large, big-name Canadian name as well? Is there a difference? Does Spotify serve one better than the other?
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
There is a huge difference in terms of the venues. If you're a major act, and you're touring Air Canada Centre or the Bell Centre, that's a whole different level—
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I'm talking about Spotify in particular. Does it serve the large “made it” performer more than someone in the middle?
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
I really don't have numbers on that. It's probably hit and miss as much as anything.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
If you do get those numbers, you could send them in. I think that would be helpful as well.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
You can send them to the clerk if you do come across those numbers.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Sansoucy, you have two minutes.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
I'm glad.
I would like to ask a question that I was not able to ask earlier.
Mr. Lefebvre, I must confess that you lost me with regard to one of the recommendations you made. You were referring to a specific section of the act. I was listening carefully, but I must confess that I would need more explanations to fully understand the recommendation you made.
4:45 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Actually, that is the way exceptions are drafted in the Copyright Act. When you want to create an exception, you must say that such and such an action “does not infringe copyright”.
Section 31.1, dealing with Internet service providers, states that they do "not infringe copyright".
If you want, I can read the provision.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
That won't be necessary. You can just explain it to us.
4:50 p.m.
Secretary-Treasurer, Guilde des musiciens et musiciennes du Québec
Basically, the exception states that it is not an infringement of copyright for an Internet service provider to communicate content protected by the Copyright Act.
In fact, the act gives certain exclusive rights to the author. Reproducing or communicating a protected work to the public could result in copyright infringement by the service provider. So an exception was created to ensure that the Internet service provider never infringes copyright. This exception applies even if—and this is a statistic I found interesting and that you will allow me to disclose, because I think you are aware of it—32% of Internet users have downloaded, read or consulted at least one music file that included illegal content. This figure comes from a survey conducted in November 2017 on online consumption of copyrighted content. This means that, on the Internet, at least 32% of Internet users have, at least once in the three months preceding the survey, read, consulted or downloaded an illegal file.
I cannot believe that Internet service providers are not aware of that. You therefore understand that the exception in section 31.1 makes sense when looking at those data, since it seems to prevent Internet service providers from being held liable under the Copyright Act. If that exception did not exist, it would be very possible, or at least possible—I must be careful—that an Internet service provider could be convicted of infringement of copyright.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much.
Thus ends the first round. We're going to move to the second round.
Before we do, the chair has a question for Ms. McGuffin.
You mentioned in your speech that in Canada in 1998 music sales peaked at $998 million. In 2014 that figure reached a record low of $397 million and then rose to $494 million in 2016.
Would you be able to submit to us the source of that? Also, what about 1999 and the rest?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
The source of that was Music Canada's “The Value Gap” report.
