Evidence of meeting #120 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was songwriters.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much. Somebody sent it to the clerk.
We're going to move to Mr. Baylis.
You have seven minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. McGuffin, you brought up safe harbour exemptions. I'd like you to elaborate on how you see their impact.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
The impact is on the ability of copyright holders to enforce their rights when the ISP only has to notify that there be a notice and notice. They're told, no, that's bad, but it doesn't actually act as a deterrent. This means there can be no ability to bring the services that are using the ISP's pipes to the table to negotiate, or if they're infringing content, no way to actually stop them from infringing content.
We want the paid streaming services to come to Canada. We want consumers to have access to those services, and we want them to pay. That's good for our members when that happens. If there is a player who isn't playing by the same rules as those services, we want the ability to take legal action against them when it's necessary.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
But you said you didn't like that. That's what I'm trying to understand.
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
We would like remedies that are stronger than that.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Right now you have just notice and notice. Notice and take down is stronger, but you say it's not good enough.
What would you say is the next step, then?
4:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
It's not only the notice and take down. It's also the remedies that allow you to enforce your rights that go hand in hand with the provision, and we'll have more details of that in our submission.
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
Just to add to this, in a perfect world, we have the technology now: the algorithms that we can apply and track where music is being used anywhere in the world. The idea would be to utilize that technology and monetize people who are using that content.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Can you explain to me that technology as you see it? You have technology. What exactly are you talking about?
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
For instance, have you ever heard of the application Shazam?
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
You can turn it on and it recognizes a song. It utilizes algorithms. It remembers patterns so that it can tell you exactly what that song was. There is the ability to track that music, that content being used anywhere.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You are saying there is technology that could track every download that an ISP—everything that's flowing through an ISP—to filter it before it flows down. Is that what you're saying?
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
That's what I was told when I was at a WIPO meeting in Geneva.
4:55 p.m.
Vice-President from Canada (American Federation of Musicians), Canadian Federation of Musicians
This was an open forum at a WIPO conference about a year and a half ago, and they were talking about this technology along with blockchain and digital—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
If you have something specific along those lines, I don't know what it is, but if you have something specific you can obviously send it to the clerk. Let's get back to the aspects of Canadian copyright law.
You're not happy with safe harbour and you're not happy with notice and notice.
Mr. Willaert, you say you'd like notice and take down.
Ms. McGuffin, you say you would like something more than notice and take down.
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
We want the ISPs to take responsibility for what's flowing through their pipes.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Let's say they're taking responsibility so they're going to take it down, but then you said it's a whack-a-mole game so—
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
We want remedies so that we could take legal action against any infringing use.
4:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Music Publishers Association
They are statutory damages and there is the—