Evidence of meeting #6 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ted Hewitt  President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada
Dominique Bérubé  Vice-President, Research Programs, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

We have a quorum. In the interest of keeping to our time, we are going to start this sixth meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Today I would like to welcome, from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, Mr. Ted Hewitt, president; Dominique Bérubé, vice-president, research programs; and Nathalie Manseau, acting chief financial officer. Thank you very much for attending. I am looking forward to an interesting hour.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.

3:35 p.m.

Dr. Ted Hewitt President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Thank you very much for that kind introduction, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today with respect to our operations, goals, challenges, and some of our strategic priorities.

Let me open with a brief introduction to SSHRC and its key role within Canada's knowledge economy and innovation agenda.

As you probably know, “social sciences and humanities” is really an umbrella term covering a broad array of disciplines and fields of study touching on many aspects of our lives, from psychology and social work to fine arts, linguistics, business, marketing, and communications, to name only a few of the disciplines we cover. Through grants, fellowships, and scholarships, SSHRC helps Canada's researchers and research institutions train the next generation of talented, creative thinkers and doers, build knowledge and understanding, and drive the innovations that address the challenges of today and tomorrow.

We have three core program areas.

First, our Talent program helps students and postdoctoral researchers develop skills and expertise in critical thinking, complex decision making and creative exploration. This accounts for 49% of program expenditures.

Our Insight program is our core support program for individuals, teams of researchers, and formal partnerships that create new knowledge and understanding, representing about 41% of our program expenditures.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

I'm sorry, could you just hold one moment, please? We don't have translation.

My apologies. You may resume.

March 10th, 2016 / 3:35 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

No problem. I can repeat anything I said.

I can repeat it 1,000 times if you like.

Through SSHRC's Connection program, research knowledge is mobilized to inform Canadian and international research, debate, decisions and actions. This accounts for 10% of program expenditures.

On behalf of all three granting councils, SSHRC also administers—and this is an important point—four major programs you may have heard about: the Canada research chairs program, the Canada excellence research chairs program, the Canada first research excellence fund, and the research support fund. I would be happy to talk in detail about any or all of these programs in the question and answer period.

I did want to mention and emphasize SSHRC's key role in Canada's innovation agenda. I imagine there will be many questions about this. We often talk about innovation in terms of science and technology, but we always have to remember what drives real innovation and change, and that is people.

I firmly believe we have to move somewhat away from thinking about innovation in narrower terms. True innovation is a holistic enterprise, a multidisciplinary endeavour that gets to the heart of human behaviour. Researchers in the social sciences and the humanities can help us better understand the economic, social, environmental, legal, and ethical aspects of our changing world.

Research in the social sciences and humanities also contributes to the pressing issues of the day—and that is another real strength.

How will a changing climate, for example, affect Canada's coastal regions and northern communities? What kinds of infrastructural investments offer the greatest benefit to our cities and rural communities? How will we deal with population movements and the integration of refugees? How do we restore and maintain positive relations between indigenous and non-indigenous Canadians?

SSHRC-funded research explores these and other critical questions that matter to Canadians.

To give you a sense of our work, let me provide you some context.

Currently, Canada's social science and humanities research community comprises no less than 24,000 full-time university faculty teachers, including many in colleges who work in our disciplines, 21,000 doctoral students, and 46,000 masters students across this country. This doesn't count the hundreds of thousands of undergraduate and diploma students engaged in social sciences and humanities research and training across the country.

Over the years, our funds for grants, fellowships, and scholarships have remained relatively stable at about $340 million, but with a growing cohort of researchers, the gap between our funding potential and our reality is starting to widen. There's one thing I can assure you of, however, and that is that the vast majority of our funds, close to 93¢ or 94¢ out of every SSHRC-allocated dollar from the Parliament of Canada, goes directly to fund researchers.

SSHRC handles as many as 12,000 to 13,000 applications every year. Depending on the funding opportunity, a single competition may receive anywhere from 100 to more than 3,000 applications. To evaluate these applications, we rely on a rigorous, world-class merit review process. More than 600 members—experts, researchers—sit on our 90 assessment committees each year, supported by an additional 6,000 external assessors and experts from Canada and around the world. I should emphasize as well that the work of these assessors is entirely voluntary and represents a contribution to our efforts at SSHRC in the amount of more than $8 million.

I'd also like to say a word about partnerships. At SSHRC, we recognize that government, industry, and academia must work together to provide high-quality evidence-based research to inform policy and decision-making. SSHRC currently funds 212 multidisciplinary cross-sector partnerships involving 46 post-secondary institutions and nearly 1,500 partner organizations. On average, our partnership grant-holders leverage more than 80¢ for every dollar of SSHRC funding, so that's 80¢ in addition to the contribution of the people of Canada.

I'd like to give you a few examples of the partnerships we fund.

Pavlos Kanaroglou, a professor in geography and earth sciences at McMaster University, is partnering with the Canadian Automobile Association, the Ford Motor Company, and Burlington Hydro to research the social costs and benefits of electric mobility in Canada.

David Connell, an associate professor at the University of Northern British Columbia, is partnering with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and the Max Planck Institute of Germany to research agricultural land use planning to help conserve farmland and promote farming.

Susanne Lajoie of McGill University is working with the Centre de recherche informatique de Montréal to study technology-rich learning environments and to improve learning and retention in schools.

Turning to our strategic priorities, Canada's researchers operate in a context far removed from that which existed when we were created back in 1977. With new and emerging digital technologies, an explosion of research crossing fields of study and even whole disciplines, and the increasing involvement of non-academic sectors in creating and mobilizing knowledge, today's campuses offer a very different research environment from those almost 40 years ago.

To address this challenge, we have carefully reviewed our programming, engaged the research community we serve, and analyzed the needs of the country’s evolving labour market. This has shaped and informed our new strategic plan—a blueprint to guide SSHRC's operations over the next five years.

Three strategic objectives lie at the heart of this plan.

First, we aim to enable excellence in a changing research environment such as I've just described. We will help ensure that Canada maintains and enhances its globally competitive position as a producer of high-calibre research embracing new and diverse forms of research excellence.

Secondly, we want to increase the scope and scale of our research investments and impact by building new and innovative partnerships. SSHRC will seek out and establish promising strategic opportunities for Canadian research, training, and knowledge mobilization through joint funding and other collaborative initiatives, both in Canada and abroad.

Finally, we are exploring better ways of connecting social sciences and humanities research with Canadians. We'll advance opportunities for the results of SSHRC research funding to be more accessible for organizations in all sectors, contributing evidence-based research to address the challenges of today and tomorrow.

To conclude, for nearly 40 years, SSHRC has continued to meet the high standards expected of us by the research community and the public. All of this we undertake as stewards of public funds and the public trust, accountable to the Canadian people and responsible for using its resources wisely and well.

That's why, with our sibling councils, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, SSHRC is working to harmonize our programs to deliver them more effectively and efficiently.

We do this to ensure that our colleges and universities can develop and attract a younger generation of talented researchers who will take up the challenges of delivering real results for Canadians.

We do this because we know that the pursuit of knowledge and new insights directly improves our lives for the better.

Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak with you today. We are more than happy to answer questions on this or any other aspect of our operations.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much. Well done. I am looking forward to hearing some really good questions today.

Our first questioner of the day is Mr. Longfield.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all I have to say it's wonderful to have you here. I've really been looking forward to today's conversation and the work that you've done on behalf of Canadians for several years. Great presentation. There is no “but” in that.

It's very important when we're looking at tri-council funding. I represent the riding of Guelph, which of course has a university that relies heavily on tri-council funding, and the role that this plays in developing the landscape for research in economic, environmental, and social sustainability.

You showed matching of 80¢ on the dollar in terms of funding. I wonder if you could comment on maybe the range of gaps that we have. That's the gap. That 20¢ is the gap between a researcher being able to carry out a project, keeping the lights on.... That 20¢ has to pay for things not included in funding applications, like overhead costs, lighting, and just having a university in place to do the work. Sometimes, in some universities, that becomes a barrier to actually implementing the research that is done.

Could you comment on maybe the direction that this gap is heading, or whether there's something that Canada First Research Excellence funding could do to help us with that gap?

3:45 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Sure, I'll clarify that. It's a great question, but I may answer this a little differently from the way you've asked it. I'll point out that we're saying that through our projects and through the projects we fund, we are able to bring another 80¢ to the table in addition to the dollar that's been provided by SSHRC and by the Parliament of Canada. In some cases, in some competitions, we've actually brought more than that, maybe a whole other dollar to the table.

The issue that you've pointed out is absolutely critical because what it shows is we need to bring this funding to the table in order to be able to fund precisely the kinds of costs that you've identified. In the case of researchers, costs have multiplied over the years, inflation has eaten away at the funding that's provided, so there's always an effort to make sure that we're able to cover all the costs required to deliver the outcomes that will have impact.

The institutions have their own costs, as many of you well know, some of which are supported through the research support fund. About 20% to 25%, depending on the institution, is returned in additional funds to institutions to help them cover costs for electricity, maintenance, libraries, technology transfer operations that have costs that extend well beyond what we provide to the researchers to cover.

It's a system. There are several elements to the system. As you've pointed out, quite rightly, there's the research that's done and the people who need to get paid. In our case, the researchers are paid by the provinces for the most part through their salaries. They need research assistants, they need to travel a bit, and they may need supplies. Then we can't forget that the university has to provide the environment to support that research, an additional cost, about 25¢ on the dollar. They would say it's twice that, but I'm not here to advocate for them.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

It depends on which university you're talking about.

3:45 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Absolutely...the students and the training costs, the infrastructure and the equipment costs.

When we talk about research and innovation, I always say we have to think about several legs of the stool that are involved. We provide one leg. There are several other components.

Thank you very much for that question.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you. I'll keep going on the line of questioning around the innovation centres across Canada and the network of universities across Canada. You've had some skill through the program that you have for funding research chairs and an intimate knowledge of the university network.

This committee will be looking at things around, hopefully, the manufacturing state of affairs, and how universities and research centres can help with manufacturing, as an example. There may be other sectors we choose, going forward, to work with.

If we were to work with your department, is that something you could help us with in terms of understanding where the strengths are, whether it's nanotechnology in British Columbia or whether it's material sciences in McMaster? Do you have that kind of knowledge that we could draw on?

3:50 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

We absolutely do. We're more than happy to do that. In meeting individually with MPs and deputy ministers and ministers, we have one standing offer among others. That offer is that if you are interested in research that's being done in Canada and funded in Canada through us, we are more than happy to search and mine our database to provide you with lists and detailed information on research that's been done in a particular sector, since we've been funding research and have the records.

One example I can give you concerns a member from Essex-Kent in the last government who wanted us to give him a list of research that was done on the greenhouse industry in southwestern Ontario. We gave him a list of probably 15 different projects that we funded over the years. Then we came back to him and said, “Now, what do you want to know more about? We'll dig further for you.”

Absolutely, we are ready to do those types of things and to provide that sort of assistance.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

That's terrific, thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

You still have a minute and 15 seconds.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

NSERC would be another of the tri-council funds. What's your relationship with NSERC and with CIHR? Is there a formal relationship, or is it informal? Could we use you to work with those agencies, or do we work with then separately?

3:50 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Absolutely. We work very closely with NSERC. They are part of our portfolio within Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. We work very closely with CIHR.

We share with NSERC a number of administrative services directly, including human resources, information services, and financial services. We share space.

The presidents meet once a month to discuss issues with the president of CFI. Anything that would come up here, or through conversation, or through an email to me, I would raise with the other presidents in those forums, but that would be easily done. I'm proud of our relationship and the one we developed in the last few years.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you. You have confirmed that you are going to be a key strategic partner for this committee, and I look forward to working with you.

3:50 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Thank you, sir.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much. You had five seconds left.

Mr. Bernier, the floor is now yours.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I apologize for being late. My parliamentary obligations have kept me in Parliament longer than expected.

Mr. Hewitt, I will ask you a question that my Liberal colleagues may have already asked, but I will pay attention.

Do you sometimes receive private funding for your research or is your research fully funded by the government? Do you turn to private partners for your research?

3:50 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Absolutely. In fact, through our collaborative research program, we have encouraged the participation of many companies. About 10% of partners come from this program. We have close to 300 active partners because of this program. Nearly 300 companies are active participants and contribute to funding. Earlier, I mentioned the 80¢ for every dollar of funding under this program.

That’s fantastic. It is a good way to attract the private sector, and it’s working.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

It is also a good way to ensure that research is aligned with priorities.

3:50 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

Thank you for pointing that out, sir.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Maxime Bernier Conservative Beauce, QC

Speaking of research aligned with the private sector, what concerns or requests do you hear from business people on a regular basis? What would they like to see in your mandate? Do people sometimes suggest things that you are not able to do because they are not within your mandate? You have been around for many years. Have you identified needs for improvement in order to increase your internal productivity and to better address the needs of your clients? Are you able to accomplish that with what you have right now or should changes be made to your mandate for that to happen? What are the day-to-day concerns of the business people you meet for you to continue to serve them well?

3:55 p.m.

President, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Dr. Ted Hewitt

I will begin and then I will turn the floor over to Ms. Bérubé.

In my view, the biggest problem is that entrepreneurs and companies are not really sure about what SSHRC does. That is our main challenge. We have a lot to offer to those companies and to the Canadian public, but we have a little more work to do on raising awareness about what we can bring to that community.

I know there are other challenges, but I will give the floor to Ms. Bérubé.

3:55 p.m.

Dominique Bérubé Vice-President, Research Programs, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada

Let me give you an example.

In a recent discussion with the folks from Mitacs, we talked about an Ontario company where 15 intern engineers were working on water treatment processes. Instead of hiring a consultant, these people accepted as their 16th intern a student specialized in international political science. The student helped them understand how the Chinese company that they had just bought operated. They were having a hard time aligning their processes with those of that company because of the cultural differences. The student suggested a whole host of solutions, and things worked out well.

I would also like to talk about the future of PhDs and the training of students in all sectors. How will granting councils be able to change their student support programs to enhance the training of those who will not have an academic career but will likely be integrated into industry or government?