Industry Committee on June 6th, 2017

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

When you show up, are the industries open-minded? Are they interested or not?

[Kenneth Porter]

Well, we had a little bias, things in our favour. We started with the energy industry, and we know the people in the C-suites in Calgary and used those personal connections. They have to trust you enough to share their problems with you. Most companies will say that they don't have any problems.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

With that reception and once they trusted you, how was that?

[Kenneth Porter]

Once they trust you and you get the kernel of information that can describe it such that it doesn't point to deficiencies in their company, but in a specific enough way that you can say, “That knowledge is available at the University of Alberta, and I can make the introduction....”

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Nuttall. You have five minutes.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to start with Mr. Susalka. I'm sorry I didn't get the opportunity to go down to Washington.

I have a couple of questions, and I want to follow up on what Mr. Baylis was asking you about.

In terms of a reporting mechanism and database related to federal funding of research or development—and I don't know, so excuse my ignorance—does that then get transferred to the private sector as well, where there are opportunities for venture capital, etc., to be able to pinpoint these different technologies?

[Stephen Susalka]

Predominantly that database is used for the federal government to keep track of the inventions that are supported using federal funds. It's not exactly designed for this market pull piece. It is different.

AUTM has done certain things to help accelerate that connection [Technical difficulty—Editor] solution to a problem, and you hope that problem lines up to an industry's concern.

By going down Mr. Porter's approach where you're actually asking the industry what is their concern and let us create an invention, as opposed to having created an invention and asking whether there is a solution to solve—that's a different approach—the Association of University Technology Managers has created a worldwide portal where technologies can be posted and reviewed for free by venture capitalists and industry.

We currently have about 22,000 technologies available, including many Canadian institutions. That again is not a federal database. It is our association's database.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Okay.

Does the U.S. government support venture capitalists or companies purchasing IP out of other countries?

[Stephen Susalka]

Out of other countries—

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

We talked about an IP deficit in Canada, and we've seen it over and over again. Yesterday, a friend called me and said they have a health care platform and they got an investment of $1 million out of Boston. This basically means it's now owned out of the U.S.

Is there any encouragement from the government, including state or local governments, to look outside of the U.S. and pull technology back? Do they subsidize that at all?

[Stephen Susalka]

Nothing comes to mind that way, although I can look at the reciprocal. You may be familiar with the SBIR, small business innovation research program, or the STTR, small business technology transfer program, that are designed to support and grow research and development in small U.S. companies. That's almost the exact opposite of what you're saying. Here the government is funding small U.S. companies that will hopefully grow, nurture, and allow them to attract more employees and develop intellectual property difference. It's almost from the U.S. out, as opposed to pulling from outside the U.S.A. in.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Arya. You have five minutes, please.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Susalka, I thought when I was listening to you that your words appeared to be more about IP licensing than knowledge transfer. Is that correct?

[Stephen Susalka]

Academic technology transfer does involve technology and licensing, but it also relates to knowledge transfer.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Knowledge transfer has two components, if I'm not wrong. One is codified knowledge and the other is tacit knowledge. How do we cover the tacit knowledge?

[Stephen Susalka]

The tacit knowledge is a little trickier. Of course you have knowledge that's being transferred by, say, a university student who then goes to work for a Canadian company, so you have that transfer of knowledge. You have transfer of knowledge just through publications, which might not be related to intellectual property that can be protected. You're right, then; there are different types of transfer.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

You mentioned that Canadian institutions spend 28% more than institutions in the U.S. on inventions and 42% more per patent than in the U.S. I may be wrong, but I think that's what you meant. Previously, one witness mentioned that in the U.S. researchers are typically paid for only eight months a year, and for the remaining four months they go to industry. Maybe that way the knowledge transfer takes place more efficiently.

[Stephen Susalka]

It really is on an institution-by-institution basis. There's no particular requirement for that approach, but you're right that knowledge transfer does occur by way of, say, consulting. Many universities have a one-day-a-week consulting policy whereby the inventor might work with a [Technical difficulty—Editor] on the development. You're right. There are many different areas of transfer of knowledge.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Porter, I put the same question to you.

[Kenneth Porter]

We touch on it. Thank you for calling on me for that one.

Knowledge translation through consulting happens all the time, in STEM and non-STEM. We've run into it mostly in going into non-STEM, into clinical and social sciences—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

No, my question is not about knowledge transfer through consulting. It is regarding how you tie the knowledge transfer to the IP transfer. The consultancy provided by the professors and the researchers is—

[Kenneth Porter]

Right. That's what I was trying to get to. Those are one-on-one. How do you scale that opportunity? If the knowledge transfer happens only in a face-to-face situation, only by the creator, it's not a scalable opportunity, and that's what we're looking for with these social enterprises. How do you put that in a forum? How do you put it on a website? How do you make an app out of it? How do you train others to deliver the program, so that it's not just you?

An opportunity to scale these consulting opportunities—

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

You seem to be a bit hesitant to recommend that all partially or fully federally funded technologies be made available. Is there a reluctance on your part?

[Kenneth Porter]

Say that again, please.