Evidence of meeting #78 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was casl.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I have just a quick question on charities, because it's differing in what Mr. Schwartzman and Ms. Morin said. You say it does have an effect. Maybe you could explain that as you see it.
12:50 p.m.
Chair, Privacy and Access Law Section, Canadian Bar Association
It's how one interprets the exceptions. To the extent that the charity is not engaging in a commercial electronic activity, that part of the business is exempt, but then every once in a while they're going to creep into soliciting money. They're going to creep into things, and with the way the language is.... Again, you prohibit everything, and unless you fit within one of the exceptions, you find yourself in this spot, as a charity, where you're not quite sure if you can send out that commercial electronic message, and if you are going to send it, then you need to make sure you meet all of these different obligations. Making it very simple for a charity would go a long way to making it easier for them.
12:50 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
Sure. I consulted with the Heart and Stroke Foundation. It is a former client of mine. They had no problems figuring out what part of their email programs were deemed to be fundraising messages, which are the messages that are exempt, and their commercial activity such as their lottery. They were able to absolutely separate those and treat them differently with regard to the activities of the business.
12:55 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
When they look at soliciting money in regard to their research and their programs, they are undertaking fundraising activities. In their view, and some of the other opinions they received, activities such as a lottery is a game of chance; therefore, it is not a fundraiser. It results in funds being raised for their organization, but because it is a game of chance it looks—
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
If I just ask, straight up to give me money, that's okay, but if I have a lottery or some fun way of trying to get money out of you, that's not okay. What about—
12:55 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
There are multiple interpretations.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
What about “Come to my gala” or “Buy a ticket to my gala”? Would that be okay or not okay?
12:55 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
If the purpose of the gala is fundraising versus simply to host an event, then yes, if the funds are being used toward a goal or activity with a purpose. Simply buying a ticket to an event would be a commercial activity, however.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
If it's “come to the event” and then extra dollars going to fundraising, I'm cool. Is that it?
12:55 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
I would say that would be open to interpretation, potentially by the CRTC.
Unfortunately, when I've asked them specifically about this as well, their answer tends to be that it's a case-by-case example when they look at the activities and the end goals, which I know is not necessarily the answer anyone wants to hear, but when you look at this as being a fundraising event versus being an event—
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Director-at-large, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
A lot of funds get driven toward payroll and non-charitable activities as well. I suppose it depends on the activity of the charity.
12:55 p.m.
Chair, Privacy and Access Law Section, Canadian Bar Association
If I could add quickly—
12:55 p.m.
Chair, Privacy and Access Law Section, Canadian Bar Association
The definition of “charity” and “not-for-profit” is not the same under CASL as it is under the Income Tax Act, so one opportunity, and it's in our submission, is to sort of make them the same. That may eliminate some of the confusion. The fact that we're here, and we can't even agree, and you can't understand shows the position that these charities find themselves in.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
On that note, I want to thank our guests for coming in. It's been another great panel, which has taken us to a place where we better understand what's going on.
Thank you again for coming.
For the rest of us, this is just a reminder that on Thursday we have witnesses, and in the last 15 minutes we're going into committee business to discuss one of the motions. Then on Tuesday, 31 October, we'll have the Competition Bureau and the Office of Consumer Affairs, who are likely to be our final witnesses.
Thank you all. It's been a great day. Go out and play in the rain.
The committee is adjourned.