Evidence of meeting #83 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was casl.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steven Harroun  Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Neil Barratt  Director, Electronic Commerce Enforcement, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Kelly-Anne Smith  Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Francis Lord  Committee Researcher

11:45 a.m.

Director, Electronic Commerce Enforcement, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Neil Barratt

Am I allowed to say “no comment” on that?

11:45 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:45 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

It would definitely be in the hundreds a year, though, with regard to conversations we have back and forth. We use the intelligence we get from the spam reporting centre, from complaints, and from other sources of information that causes us to do that initial outreach and say, “We're seeing a problem here.” It can be something very simple, such as “Oh no, it's this”, to which we might say, “Okay. Thank you very much.”

It would definitely be in the hundreds per year.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Jowhari for five minutes.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you.

Welcome back.

What I heard is that the CRTC focuses on education and investigation as well as enforcement. I also heard that you have an outreach group that goes across the country and tries to educate and answer questions.

You also talked about the fact that, because of those sessions, and because of some of the inquiries made to the outreach organization, you've made some improvements in things such as frequently asked questions, graphics, and posting. You also touched on subsection 6(6) as an example.

Now, if I break it down, there's some legislative clarification that could be done, and there's some better practices clarification that could be done, and I'm getting the sense that you're doing a lot of that clarification through the various means you have.

Through this process, what have you heard that would help us to identify one, two, or three areas on the legislative side, as part of this exercise, so we could say that, if we make this amendment or if we make this change, it would improve the situation through better education and better adoption, leading to higher compliance, and therefore, a reduction in the number of complaints?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Kelly-Anne Smith

As I mentioned, I think subsection 6(6) is definitely an area that, if you could tweak it, that would improve my life 100%.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

So we've got subsection 6(6).

11:45 a.m.

Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I understand you've been three years in there, and I understand better is always possible, so give us another one. Subsection 6(6) is one. What would be another one?

11:45 a.m.

Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Kelly-Anne Smith

Another one would be some of the overlaps in the exemptions. I did give the example of an existing business relationship and a business-to-business relationship in the GIC regulations.

I would have to refresh my memory as to which sections, but there is also, in the GIC regulations and in the act, an exemption for inquiry request complaint, and there's another one in the regulations. They're almost identical, but the time periods and the provisions for the exemption on consent are different. They're very similar, and consumers and the industry cannot distinguish between them.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

That's fine. I will ask for a submission by your department around the two or three areas on the legislative side that we could specifically look into. You don't even have to suggest that we amend them, just say we specifically look into them and focus our comments on them.

If you made that submission, that would be good.

11:50 a.m.

Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Kelly-Anne Smith

Absolutely.

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

I will put one more on the record. The first time we were here, I focused on domestic sharing, right? It's easier for me to share with my international partners than it is my partners across town. That would definitely be one on our list.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

That's a great lead-in for my next question.

About information-sharing, I see that the CRTC does two types of information-sharing. There's sharing with partners outside of Canada but also with the other two groups that you work with. Can you comment on the effectiveness of the internal information-sharing with the other two organizations, the commission as well as the bureau, as well as internationally?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

Absolutely. I'll also let my colleague Mr. Barratt add to my remarks.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Where can it be improved? That's my focus. Tell me where we should improve it or make some recommendations.

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

One of the major things I mentioned last time, if not this time, was that our partnership with the Competition Bureau and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner is written in the legislation, which is fantastic. It's not “you should” or “you can”; it's “you must”, so we share on cases there.

Personally, I think that between those two organizations, we're fine. We've learned how to—

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

This is not what we heard in the testimony, but from your point of view, you're saying it's fine.

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

We're working well as far as collaborating on cases is concerned. We're working well on deconflicting, for example, if it's a criminal case versus a civil case with our partners, or if it's a privacy case. Sometimes we take them from all angles, but otherwise it's “Over to you. This is now your job.”

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

How about internationally?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

We effectively use memorandums of understanding with agencies around the world.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

How effective has that been?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

They have been very effective. Certainly, our international partners execute warrants, gather information for us, and knock on doors. We do the same for them. CASL legislation permits that. We have two streams there, which I've talked about. We have bilateral agreements with various international organizations, and we're also a member of—

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Can you also, as part of your submission, make a recommendation on where we can improve?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Compliance and Enforcement Officer, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

Absolutely.