Industry Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

It was a very good question. Have we got any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You have 30 seconds.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Grisdale, you were awfully peeved that certain companies jumped the gun on you when you were making some inquiries. Do you think that was on purpose?

[Brent Grisdale]

Well, if you're asking my opinion, then yes.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Good. That's what I thought you were going to say.

[Brent Grisdale]

I will say this, and I think this is important. The one thing to add to the model is where this funding should be allocated to and where it should be drawn from. If the infrastructure bank is actually created, that's where you want to do the financing of the towers and our ability to deliver those services. Because it's infrastructure, a hard asset with a hard value, if the company fails to provide the services, the infrastructure should still be there for the next company to come along, pick up where they left off, and make sure that clients still receive that service.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much. I'm seeing a lot of nodding heads, so I think you said something good.

We're going to move to Mr. Sheehan, who has the last five minutes.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I'd better make it count.

Thank you very much for your presentation and the very thoughtful advice you've been giving this committee as we're looking at bringing high-speed rural broadband to all sorts of places, such as northern Ontario, which has a significant amount of dark fibres that are served in the major cities by companies like Shaw in Sault Ste. Marie, for example. As soon as you get out of my city of Sault Ste. Marie and start going north, there are a lot of challenges in just the geography of Canada and all the different issues.

There's a company in Sault Ste. Marie called WirelessCom. It's a small one, and it has just started up. I've met with the owner. There are a lot of expenses in the towers and getting access, trying to find places where he can beam his signal and bounce it. He gets pretty innovative. Sometimes he has to hire a helicopter, or he has to climb up a mountain with his crew in the middle of winter, and so on.

I've heard testimony from various people that it would have been easier if other people who owned towers gave access to the smaller and medium-sized corporations, but they're not. Have you heard that as well? It could be Hydro, Bell towers, or Shaw. It's about being able to piggyback on there. Have you had any success doing that, and do you have any examples?

[Brent Grisdale]

It's an excellent question.

I remember when DAVE Wireless was at the regulatory stage, begging the CRTC and Industry Canada to enforce the tower-sharing agreement. The problem is that if you make an application to Telus, they will say it's going to take them three months to do a wind load calculation and engineering drawings. It's going to cost them $5,000 and three months to do this, and guess what? After three months, on day 85, they're going to need more radios on that tower, it's going to change their wind load requirements for that tower, they're going to have to do that implementation, and so on. The end of the story is that you'll never get on their towers.

In the States and across the world, how they're resolving that issue is they're saying, “Why am I owning these towers for which the government is mandating access? I'll sell it to American Tower or one of those companies that will operate towers as a REIT.” That was a great solution. I can now get access to a lot of towers because they've sold the towers to American Tower or...I can't remember all the companies' names. They're happy because that increases their REIT revenue for the tower. Everybody wins there, and it's reasonable. Like I said, when I was looking at Wind, I knew if I sold those towers to a REIT, I'd probably pay for the purchase of the asset in the first place.

I can't even remember what the question was. I'm sorry.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

It was about access to all these towers that are out there and setting them up as a REIT. The gentleman from Sault St. Marie, Carmine Biasucci, has so many stories about having to be so innovative and creative in creating towers. It is an expense. He's trying to go through the Laurentian Mountains, climbing, hiring helicopters, and all that. Meanwhile, there can be a tower just sitting there not doing anything, and he can't get access to it.

[Brent Grisdale]

You don't realize how many electrical poles and infrastructure components are out there, around the landscape, until you start working in electricity. You don't realize how many drilling rig signs there are until you start driving and have to find the drilling rig by knowing where the signs are on the side of the road. All of a sudden, they're everywhere. It's the same with us. There are towers everywhere, and it drives not only me crazy, but it drives my wife crazy, because I can't help but point it out to her.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

That's good. I just have a minute left, so I have to move on from that, but I think we have to underline and highlight that in our recommendations.

With respect to the first nations, there was a recent announcement in northern Ontario for the Ring of Fire. With the Matawa First Nations, there five remote, fly-in nations. The government invested about $7 million both federally and provincially, with the federal government providing the lion's share. It was done through a private company that's up there, although the name has escaped me.

In your opinion, how can the government continue to serve first nations who are in remote and rural areas?

[Brent Grisdale]

You really don't want me to answer that question.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I think that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Do you want him to answer the question?

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

If you want to, go ahead. You're not going to hurt anyone's feelings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

On the record, I'll give you 30 seconds to answer that question.

[Brent Grisdale]

I can't do it. This is going on record, and it will involve some constitutional items.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Okay, we'll stop there. That concludes our session for today.

I'd like to thank both of our guests for a most informative and fun session.

Thank you all very much. We're all looking forward to finishing this study and seeing what we can come up with.

We're going to break for two minutes while we go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]