Evidence of meeting #94 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was access.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
If we left the private sector companies alone, that they would solve the problem of rural Internet access with their own resources and without subsidies.
4:25 p.m.
Project Manager, Montcalm Télécom et fibres optiques
No, it's the opposite.
4:25 p.m.
Project Manager, Montcalm Télécom et fibres optiques
These regions haven't been covered for 50 years, and there's no reason why they would get coverage overnight. This has nothing to do with the private sector. It has everything to do with the economic model.
Everybody talks about density, that if they don't have enough density the cost of structure is so high that there is no way you can make a rate of return that typical telecom companies are looking for.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you.
I have only a few seconds left. I wanted to go very quickly to Mr. Chen, with a very quick question.
In terms of Internet neutrality, investment in rural Internet is often different from one town to the next. Would you say that should be a factor in net neutrality? If you invest in a differential manner, is that violating the neutrality of the net because you're not providing equal service to different people?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Wubim Foundation
Net neutrality primarily refers to the discrimination in content, not necessarily the inadequacy of service in terms of numerical speeds.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Director, Wubim Foundation
Discrimination in availability is not considered a net neutrality issue. Generally the way that people tend to phrase it is that it's better to have slower Internet if that would mean that all services are treated equally than fast Internet that discriminates against certain services by making them arbitrarily slower. With the slow Internet, it might be slow but at least you have competition.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for appearing before us today.
I have one question that I'd like to go through with all four of you to get your answer.
The Liberal Government has pledged $500 million for the Connect to Innovate program. Just doing some quick figuring here, we've spent close to $200 million of that. We've spent $195 million in Quebec and Newfoundland alone over the last couple of years. Manitoba and B.C. got about $65 million, and I know that they've pledged another $100 and some million for this upcoming year for part of B.C., and again the east.
Is $500 million anywhere near enough to connect?
We'll start at that end of the table over there and we'll end up with Saskatchewan at the end please.
4:25 p.m.
Project Manager, Montcalm Télécom et fibres optiques
I can't directly answer your question because I don't know all of the data.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
People are talking about $1 billion just for the greater Vancouver area. We're talking about $500 million for Canada.
4:30 p.m.
Project Manager, Montcalm Télécom et fibres optiques
Yes, one of the major problems we have is the difficulty in identifying who really has the service and who does not. In our case, when we started to look and wanted to apply to the first program, what we got for the MRC was $4.7 million. This time we have multiple clients who are getting money. The first thing we do is to measure who does and doesn't have service among the people in the territory, because if you ask Telus, Bell, Rogers, all the incumbents—you know what?—everybody is well served. There's no need for money. However, if you check the reality of service, you will find that it's for 7,193 houses—it's only part of the 22,000. It's the same for any MRC in our province. Everybody would claim that they're well served.
We took the hexagon we got from the government, and they were all well served. We measure it. We do surveys. We knock at doors, and we go to the civil servants of the municipality, and we find out who is served and not served.
4:30 p.m.
Director, Wubim Foundation
As far as funding goes, it's a start. I wouldn't say it's sufficient for the long term, and I've emphasized the need for sufficient sustained investment, but it's a start.
But as my fellow witnesses have said, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what needs to be done. That doesn't necessarily mean that government should be footing the entire bill. Part of it should come from incentives to the private sector, particularly to engage in creating and building backbone and middle mile connectivity, so that the funding from the government can be directed effectively into more localized infrastructure projects. That would be the most efficient way to make use of it, but in the long run, yes, there needs to be a concrete plan for sustained development.
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, SouthWestern Integrated Fibre Technology
No, it's not enough. Our project area was awarded $180 million in 2016, and that is a good start, just for southwestern Ontario. When you look at the north, it has enormous challenges, much worse than Saskatchewan even has. One of the things that I think would make it easier for any kind of organization, whether a private sector-directed subsidy or a not-for-profit that has plan to do it, would be to have sustained annual investments rather than individual program areas where we have to wait to find out what it's going to be two years from now. That would make the planning and the execution far easier, and far more effective, and in the long term, I think it would reduce the amount of subsidy required by the private sector to finish the job.
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Counsel and Regulatory Affairs, SaskTel
Well, to state the obvious, it doesn't come anywhere close to what's needed to get to 50-10, but I think the ISED program is to get to 5-1. It seems that the $500 million will get the country there, but I think the issue is that it comes down to these hexagons. I've heard people talk to the committee about the hexagons. I think the idea is to look at the hexagons of people to see whether the majority of the people have access. Well, that means the minority may not have access. So I think the answer to your question is to work hard with ISED to understand the hexagons and the information that's gone into saying that those hexagons are served—but served to what degree?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you.
I'm a representative from one province. What would it cost the province of Saskatchewan to connect at 50-10?
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Counsel and Regulatory Affairs, SaskTel
At the moment that would require fibre to go to the farms and acreages. We don't have a number for that, but it—
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Corporate Counsel and Regulatory Affairs, SaskTel
It would be $5 billion, probably. It's not affordable, in our opinion, to plow fibre to every farm. I know there was somebody from the States who talked about it. Huge money has come out of their universal service funds to fund that fibre to the farms.
