Industry Committee on April 30th, 2020

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good afternoon.

I'd like to acknowledge all my colleagues. I want to take a moment to ask all my colleagues to use the headset. It makes a real difference in terms of sound quality. There has been a major discussion on the viability of technology in the parliamentary setting. This would be a good opportunity to lead by example. Thank you in advance.

Minister Bains, thank you again for being here. You mentioned in passing the idea of investing in the automotive industry. However, we can see that the oil industry is currently experiencing difficulties as a result of the economic crisis and war. This is a lose-lose situation. When the price of oil is low, consumers are very tempted to purchase a huge amount of it. There's no incentive for energy conversion in relation to the industry. High oil prices lead to a significant amount of investment, because we see this as a business opportunity.

Has the idea of an ecological transition, as it has often been referred to in the industry, been dropped because of the crisis?

What type of investments will be made in the automotive industry that you referred to earlier?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I want to emphasize the importance of the aerospace sector. It isn't just the automotive sector. The aerospace sector is absolutely crucial to our goal. It makes vital equipment. One example is CAE Canada.

In terms of our environmental goals, as always, the environment is a priority for our government. We'll continue to work hard to find solutions for the transition. We'll meet our environmental goals for the 2030 and 2050 targets.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I'll nevertheless ask you again about the investments that you mentioned in the sector. What type of investments will they be? What will be supported? Will any transition conditions be attached to these investments?

In short, what's the goal of all this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

I'm sorry, but we don't have time for the response.

The next round of questions goes to MP Masse. You have two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Minister, we New Democrats have declared that Wi-Fi and Internet connections are an essential service that should be available for Canadian businesses and also for schools that are sending work home right now. What do you say to the telecommunication companies that are not providing sufficient release for school platforms, especially in rural and remote areas?

I know that some of the hubs' prices and fees are very expensive and are causing considerable hardship for a number of families. What's your government's plan to either reduce those fees and services or for expectations to provide more cost-efficient connections for Canadians, especially in rural and remote areas? We know there are urban issues too, but rural and remote areas in particular are getting whacked right now.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Our government understands the importance of focusing on quality service, on world-class networks at affordable prices. Those have been the priorities of our government, and we're making sure that during and after this crisis we continue to advance those goals.

I would like to underscore that our networks have kept up with the demand. It's been remarkable, and we have some of the best networks in the world. I want to acknowledge the field technicians who are out there every day making sure that Canadians remain connected.

You highlight a very good point around rural connectivity. This is an area where clearly there's a digital divide. There are two sets of experiences: one for those who live in urban Canada and another for those Canadians who live in rural communities. We have put programs in place, but we need to do more, and I am confident that my colleague Maryam Monsef will be presenting initiatives to improve rural connectivity.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

If there is a problem with pricing to consumers, will the government, and you, step in to regulate some of that pricing? I am asking because we have so many kids now who are doing online schooling, and it's becoming an extra burden and a barrier to equal education.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Pricing again is something we've worked on very aggressively to make sure that prices go down. Because of our policies and because of the initiatives we've put in place, prices have gone down, but we need to do more.

One example I want to highlight is an initiative called “Connecting Families”. This is a $10-per-month Internet plan available to those families that receive the Canada child benefit. I'm confident that if Canadians make themselves aware of this program, more of them will take advantage of this initiative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Minister. That's all the time we have for that round.

We're now moving into the third round, and the first five-minute question goes to MP Dreeshen.

Minister, I understand that you were to leave at noon. Do you still have a few more moments for us?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair. I can make myself available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

With that, we will move to MP Dreeshen for five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair; and thank you to the minister for being here today.

Minister, quite frankly, Canadians are at a stage now where their confidence is being strained. We're getting a lot of flowery words from the government of things that are happening, but what we see in rural parts of the country is convenience stores that are open and small businesses that are being shuttered. We have packed parking lots at big box stores, but everybody else has closed because of COVID-19. The products that would normally be sold in these communities are being purchased now in the big box stores because they happen to have food associated with them, but this is certainly the way to destroy the backbone of rural Canada, so that's really a critical part that we have to keep in mind.

I'll go back to a discussion that I believe the Bloc member brought up in talking about oil and gas. Quite frankly, your mandate letter makes it clear that you don't even have oil and gas in that mandate, and it's frustrating to see that it would not be in the mandate of an industry minister. Of course, some of the actions we've seen from this government have proven that there is a major lack of concern.

Meanwhile, Canadian companies are at the forefront of innovation and breakthroughs that could help us in the current battle against COVID-19. To me, it's a mystery why the Liberal government has decided to turn its back on Canadian high-tech start-up companies by excluding them from eligibility for the Canada emergency wage subsidy.

Could you talk about why some of these high-tech start-ups are finding it so difficult to engage in that program?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I can start with the last point that you raised in terms of high-tech companies. We've introduced a $250-million program through the industrial research assistance program, to help high-tech companies, start-up companies, pre-revenue companies, companies that are scaling up, SAS enterprises and so on. When we have broad-based programs, we recognize that some companies might not necessarily get the support they need, so we quickly pivoted and supported our start-up ecosystem through that initiative. If necessary, we will scale that up.

In terms of the challenges that businesses are facing, we have put forward record liquidity measures through the Business Development Bank of Canada and Export Development Canada, as well as by working with our financial institutions. Right now, hundreds of thousands of loans have been issued to small businesses.

The point I want to underscore there is that for many communities, small businesses are too big to fail. Prior to COVID-19, we had over one million small businesses, employing over eight million Canadians. That is why we are working around the clock to support our small businesses through the different measures we've introduced over the past several weeks.

Very quickly, because you raised the point, when it comes to the oil and gas sector, I work very closely with Seamus O'Regan to make sure that we look at investments to not only see that sector thrive, because they are facing a set of challenges, but also to focus on the small and medium-sized enterprises and how we can help them transition this energy sector to a low-carbon economy.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I think the point you just made is one of the issues that people are understanding: that this is the attitude of this government. We can shut it down here in Canada if you like, if that's what the government plans, but it is simply going to come from other places in the world that, quite frankly, don't care about the environment.

I know we've had this discussion many times, so I certainly understand where this government is coming from in that regard.

Getting back to small businesses being too big to fail, going into more debt is not going to help them. They're going into debt while other companies are able to keep their doors open because they might be selling some food in that area. All the things that need to be purchased are being purchased from these larger companies rather than the small companies. We're going to see the hollowing-out of small communities as a result. We keep saying all these flowery things about how we're really helping, but if all you're doing is giving debt and more debt to these small companies, they're not going to be able to get ramped up again. We have to recognize that.

When everyone asks if they can borrow some money from BDC or EDC, which of course small companies aren't going to be able to do, this is very hollow for the small mom-and-pop shops that have never had a salary. Quite frankly, the money many of them send out for salaries is more than they get from their business. I think it's something you have to think about.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Ehsassi. You have five minutes.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister, for appearing before our committee today.

I think it would be fair to say, given the various activities that you have undertaken over the course of the past month, that you have essentially become the mobilizer-in-chief, and you are in contact with various segments of our economy.

I don't think you had enough of an opportunity to talk about the great work that Canadian scientists are doing. I know that's something you take a personal interest in.

I wonder if you could provide us with more of an update on the excellent work that our scientists at the University of Saskatchewan are undertaking. I know our government did make available an additional $23 million to them so they could continue with their cutting-edge research.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Very briefly, Madam Chair, because I didn't have the opportunity to respond to the questions from the previous round, when it comes to rural and remote communities, we've invested significant amounts of money in the regional development agencies, and these agencies exist across the country to help small businesses with the health care crisis we're dealing with.

Again, I want to underscore that the oil and gas sector is going to be part of the transition. We work very closely with them, and I have a great working relationship with Seamus O'Regan as well. We understand this area has been hit hard, not only by the health care crisis, but also with regard to the price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. The sector is facing many challenges that are not necessarily within our control.

To respond to the questions asked by the parliamentary secretary around science and science mobilization, I think it's a remarkable story. As a government we believe in science. We reinstated the mandatory long-form census. Our government made historic investments in science. We have some of the best world-class researchers and scientists, and they are empowered and engaged with vaccine development, therapeutics and other countermeasures. All of it is designed to help and protect Canadians, and we're very excited about the work they're doing.

VIDO-InterVac, the one that was highlighted, is the international vaccine centre in Saskatchewan, where they are now looking at building up clinical trial capacity.

We've made sure we not only mobilize scientists but also give them the resources for clinical trials for the development process, and ultimately we want to focus on broad biomanufacturing production as well. We've invested over $1 billion in this initiative to complement the investments we've made in the past.

We've also ramped up our production facility at the National Research Council.

These are part of the different initiatives that were announced by the Prime Minister and by Minister Hajdu as well, on top of the testing initiatives, the immunity task force, and Genome Canada. They are all designed to mobilize the science community and our researchers to deal with this incredible challenge we're facing.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Let's turn to a very different type of push. It's not the push for developing a vaccine but the push that we're seeing from various provinces to reopen. I know that the program you have with IRAP is very important to those efforts. You did touch on IRAP. Could you tell us how crucial IRAP is in assisting various provinces to return back to business?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Over the last four years, we have significantly invested in a new industrial policy called the innovation and skills plan. In order to have a strong, innovative economy, we need to invest in scale. We need to invest in towns and people, in upscaling and in rescaling. That is our competitive advantage. That is what will differentiate our companies and enable them to succeed on a going-forward basis.

The program we identified that works with companies across the country in different provinces is the industrial research assistance program, which will enable companies that were not eligible for the wage subsidy to be able to support highly skilled innovators. This is about retaining top-tier talent within Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Minister.

Our next round of questioning goes to MP Rempel Garner. You have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Minister, just going back to the line of questions I had before, I'm wondering if you could point me to any section of PIPEDA that would apply to a contact-tracing application that was developed pro bono.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Again, it's a hypothetical. I don't know which pro bono app you're talking about. As I said, we are engaging with many different companies to look at different solutions, and of course PIPEDA and the Privacy Act would apply.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm also wondering about the nature of consent. I'm assuming that your department is doing some research on how privacy would apply to this. Let's say one of these apps had some sort of terms and conditions, as we know all of these apps do, and essentially asked you to sign away your rights to this data, or your privacy. As we know, many apps already do. What would your interpretation of the nature of consent be in that situation? How can you sign away rights to your health data and...?

It's a situation in which you potentially need to have access to this app so that you're not in contact with a deadly virus. Is your department doing any work specifically to deal with that? Again, I kind of don't want the word salad about “privacy is important”. What is the specific work that you guys are doing to ensure that it wouldn't be the case in that situation?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Privacy is important, and I can't say that often enough, because Canadians say that to me and I have no hesitation in saying it. That is a priority of ours—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

What are you—