Industry Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2021

[Iain Stewart]

I don't know which CSIS officials you are referring to, sir. We had no discussions with CSIS that raised red flags. I have no knowledge of that discussion.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

When did you realize the CanSino deal was falling apart? What was the date that you realized it was falling apart?

[Iain Stewart]

There was no one date. They were lined up to start clinical trials, and they did not ship. It did not clear customs. It just became apparent with time that it was not going to be released. You'll remember, perhaps, in the media, I noted at that time that, obviously, the transaction was not proceeding.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

When did you make the government aware? When was the earliest date that you made the government aware?

[Iain Stewart]

To be honest, I don't remember. We can certainly double-check and provide that detail.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

This is critical. From what's being reported, it appears that when the announcement was made in May and then the shipment of the seeds was held back, it delayed further discussions, and when it was finally cancelled.... Was there a delay in looking at other opportunities because of the efforts that were put into this CanSino deal?

[Iain Stewart]

This story has been circulated in the media a few times. There's no connection whatsoever between the CanSino deal and the procurement negotiations that Minister Anand's team were doing. I don't know where that comes from, to be honest. CanSino was just a research relationship with the company at that juncture. It did not defer to nor was it connected to any of the other activity under way.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

At your time at the NRC, so the Royalmount facility, which had an expansion and looks like we may see some kind of production out of it sometime this year, with any hope.... It's been reported that the U.K. took a different strategy. It recognized in May, early on, the importance of manufacturing. It looked at repurposing facilities. Did the NRC actually look at potential repurposing and other arrangements with other potential organizations that could have produced vaccines?

[Iain Stewart]

That's a large question, sir.

I would say that what the United Kingdom is doing and what the NRC is doing are actually the same thing. There were extensive discussions back and forth between the United Kingdom team and the NRC team. It's the same general idea: a non-profit entity to manufacture vaccines. The government is—

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

But Mr. Stewart, the difference is that the U.K. was, from May to the fall, able to build production capacity, manufacturing capacity. In Canada, we are, at best, sometime this year, and the latest reports may even be by the end of the year. Is that not concerning?

[Iain Stewart]

Well, the NRC project, as I mentioned earlier, to my knowledge, sir, is on track and is actually on schedule for what was intended when it was announced. Mitch Davies and his minister will be available to this committee to reassure you or speak about the issue you're raising. If you have concerns that it's not on track, Mitch would be better positioned than I am to speak to that, because I haven't been there since September.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Lambropoulos.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for being here today to answer our questions.

My first question is for Minister Hajdu. If anyone wants to chime in as well, they're more than welcome to.

The Premier of Quebec has announced several times and has made it clear that he believes that giving one dose of the vaccine to Canadians is better than giving some people two doses of the vaccine. This is very concerning to many people, because they don't necessarily think it will work or have the same effectiveness if the rules that Pfizer has given on the time between vaccines is not followed.

What role do we have to play in this? Is there any way that we can strongly encourage the Premier of Quebec to follow the instructions given by Pfizer with regard to the 45 days between doses rather than 90 days or a longer amount of time?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much, MP Lambropoulos.

I'll just start, but maybe I'll turn to Iain Stewart because it has an intersection with the Public Health Agency of Canada or to Deputy Minister Lucas for a regulatory approval process point of view.

Obviously, the closer that we can adhere to the recommendations of the manufacturer, the better, in terms of our perspective. In fact, the vaccine was approved with adherence to the manufacturer's recommendation. It was further reviewed by NACI and then through Dr. Tam's special advisory committee to extend it to six weeks as being the maximum gap between the first and second doses.

We understand there are strong desires to vaccinate people as quickly as possible, but we also obviously want to make sure that the vaccine is as effective as possible for the individuals that we're using it for.

I'll turn to Deputy Minister Lucas to start.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Madam Chair, as Minister Hajdu noted, the regulatory review based on clinical evidence provided by Pfizer indicated that the dose interval should be 21 days in the context of Pfizer authorization and 28 days in the case of Moderna. This regulatory authorization was then considered looking at the broader benefits and risks and the clinical evidence by the National Advisory Committee on Immunization in terms of the clinical guidance they provided.

Iain Stewart can speak to that in the context of the Public Health Agency, given their direct relationship with the National Advisory Committee on Immunization.

[Iain Stewart]

Just to close that off, the National Advisory Committee on Immunization has looked at this issue. It's an arm's length, independent body of experts. They looked at the clinical trial data. They looked at the regulatory approval and they provided the advice that 45 days was an appropriate interval. So far, my understanding is that provinces are working within that guidance.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Minister Hajdu, my next question goes to you as well.

We've procured Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. We've said that the next two that will possibly soon be approved and that we'll possibly have access to are AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson. With the ones we currently have, we will be vaccinating all Canadians by September at the latest. That's the promise that's been made up until now.

I'm looking for a best-case scenario. If these two other vaccines were to be approved and other ones down the line as well, what is the quickest that we can get Canadians vaccinated?

I'm asking this because we don't know necessarily how long immunity lasts once someone has been given both doses. We know that it is effective for a certain amount of time, but we don't know how long that lasts. The quicker more Canadians get vaccinated, the better it'll be for Canada in the long run. I'm just wondering what a best-case scenario would look like.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Through the chair, the member is absolutely right. There are still so many unanswered questions around the immunity piece. How long it lasts and whether or not it prevents onward transmission are two of the questions that researchers are trying to unlock the answers for right now. We do know, though, that it reduces severe disease and it protects people from dying from COVID-19, which is why the NACI recommendations suggested that we prioritize elderly people.

I see the chair is waving a card at me, so I'll have to stop there. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now go to MP Lemire.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Minister, on more than one occasion last week during the emergency debate, it was mentioned that the Government of Canada's plan was very simple and very clear. There was talk of six million combined doses of Pfizer and Moderna by March, 20 million doses by June and 80 million doses by September. It was said that the government's strategy focuses only on these two companies.

Can you confirm all that for me?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you, through the chair.

I'll clarify that it is not the government's strategy to focus only on those two companies. They're certainly two very promising companies and they're the first two that have been approved.

The member is right. Even if we were to approve no other companies, we would still have enough with those two companies to vaccinate every Canadian according to our current contracts. We're not stopping with just two, of course. As the member previously said, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are in the queue to be approved. Recently, Novavax as well has filed for regulatory approval through our rolling approval process.

This is good news for Canadians, because the variety is not just important in terms of the number of doses, but in some cases, vaccines are more effective with one population over another. Vaccine manufacturers may have done research in, for example, younger populations, while others might not have. This variety is important for Canada to reach its immunization goals and to provide that option to provinces and territories as well.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Okay.

Could you tell me, specifically, why Canada's strategy is based on buying doses rather than buying a licence? A licence would have allowed us to produce our vaccines here.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I can't answer that question for you. It is a question that might be more appropriately directed to Minister Champagne.

The vaccine task force was charged with the chore of looking at all of these promising vaccine developments around the world and advising the government about where to place our bets so that we would have as much variety as possible given that we knew not all candidates would be successful and not all companies would be able to scale up to deliver vast numbers of doses around the world.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Next we have MP Davies.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.