Industry Committee on Feb. 4th, 2021

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I will try to answer briefly, as I see the chair signalling to me.

Like I said in my presentation, since the 1980s, we have lost a lot of elements in this industry.

However, allow me to reassure you, Mr. Lemire. Barely a month into the pandemic, we had already invested $792 million. I could give you the long list of businesses—many of them in Quebec—that wanted to contribute in a number of areas, be it in terms therapies or vaccines, for instance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Davies.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Now, Prime Minister Trudeau and both ministers today, I think, have repeatedly emphasized that Canada will receive enough vaccine doses from Pfizer and Moderna alone to vaccinate every single Canadian by September. That's the claim. Yesterday it was revealed that Canada is the only G7 country to request vaccines from the COVAX program, which is a global initiative meant primarily to help low- and middle-income countries get access to vaccines. Specifically, Canada has requested approximately two million doses from AstraZeneca, of course pending regulatory approval. That's expected to arrive at the end of June.

In this regard, we are listed along with such countries as Rwanda, Sudan and Afghanistan, which have yet to receive a single dose of vaccine. We've also made this request of COVAX at a time when the entire continent of Africa has administered about 230,000 doses and Canada has received about a million doses.

Minister Champagne, does it seem morally defensible to you that Canada is taking vaccines from poor countries—because we are in a globally competitive environment, as Minister Anand said—some of which have received no doses at all, while claiming that we have enough doses to vaccinate our entire population without even touching the COVAX supplies?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Davies, with respect, I may let Minister Anand respond. She was more involved than I was in vaccine procurement.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The intention behind COVAX, in order to bring countries together to form this multilateral pooled procurement mechanism, was to ask countries to supply certain funding for their own procurements and then to also ask them to provide funding for the developing world.

Canada stepped up and provided $220 million for the pool procurement mechanism, from which it could draw as one of those contributing countries to bring doses to Canada. We also stepped up to provide $220 million for doses for the developing world.

The way in which this procurement approach functions is to allow developed countries to procure doses to use domestically and also to ask them to provide funding for the donation of doses to the developing world.

Canada is one of the largest contributors to the COVAX facility, because of our commitment to the developing world. Indeed, our Minister of International Development is taking a leading position in that alliance, because of our belief that until everyone is safe, no one is safe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Généreux.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Champagne, I welcome you in this new role.

I am new to this committee, so I will be watching you, Ms. Anand.

You just compared vaccine procurement to Project Apollo. I am instead tempted to say, “Houston, we have a problem.” Something isn't right.

Ms. Anand, my question is for you.

Today, The Economist is reporting that Canada is dreaming in technicolour and that the vaccine delivery we want will not materialize. We have not received any vaccines over the past three weeks.

According to you, your portfolio is amazing, and you have done extraordinary things.

However, if we take the global vaccine production capacity into account, is it really realistic to think that we will have vaccinated Canada's entire population of 38 million people by September?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I said, I don't believe The Economist is accurate on this point, with the knowledge we have here in Canada relating to the deliveries and procurements I have mentioned here today.

In particular, we are going to see a very rapid ramp-up over the next weeks and months from approved vaccine suppliers alone. As a result, all Canadians who wish to have access will have access prior to the end of September. That is based just on approved vaccines alone, but we know we have others in rolling review.

This is the benefit of having a diversified portfolio. We—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I apologize, Minister, but all this makes me think of a situation where a person has reserved a car with seven different dealerships, five of which are unable to deliver it before 2022, 2023, 2024 or 2025. How do you expect the person to drive a car they won't have for another two, three or four years?

That is the reality. The vaccines have neither been approved nor are they in production. What's more, as Mr. Champagne said earlier, steps need to be followed before vaccine production can begin. Facts show us that we will not have all the vaccines by September.

Mr. Champagne, you said earlier that four steps must be followed before a business can manufacture vaccines. I understand those steps, as I am in business myself. However, the reality is that England has built....

My dog is starting to bark. I'm sorry. This is the reality of working from home.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You see that your dog does not agree with you, Mr. Généreux. He is letting you know by barking.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

He has made me lose my train of thought.

What I was trying to say is that England has successfully modernized factories, so that it can produce vaccines very quickly, which is something we have not been able to do in Canada. In China, hospitals are being built in two or three weeks.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I don't know whether you want me to answer, Mr. Généreux. You muted yourself, and we understand why. I understand the meaning of your question, so I will answer it quickly.

England's case is often brought up, Mr. Généreux, and I find it interesting. However, as I told you, the British manufacturing base was vastly different from Canada's. England had more capacity, and that is what made production intensification possible.

In Canada, only two factories have a large manufacturing capacity: Stanofi's facility, in Toronto, and GSK's, in Quebec City. You are familiar with GSK, which has facilities in Sainte-Foy. However, GSK is already producing a flu vaccine.

So our manufacturing base was smaller than England's. That is why the English were able to quickly turn to that solution.

Here, we quickly invested considerable amounts of money. We must also make sure to do things prudently and with resilience. By choosing to set up in Canada, Novavax was essentially giving us its seal of approval. That's pretty important.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

We agree with you. That's excellent news.

In reality, we should have pursued this option much more quickly. Vaccines would eventually be approved. We could have signed contracts.

According to you, we are in the best country in the world. It's as if we were dreaming in technicolour. However, the reality is different from what you are saying.

What will you tell us in September, when not all Canadians have been vaccinated? Can you answer that now?

The reality is that what you are saying will not happen. We already know it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Généreux, since you were interrupted by your dog earlier, I will give you a bit more time, so that the minister can answer you.

Minister, please go ahead. Feel free to answer.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I would just like to say that I think the rhetoric needs to come down a little bit.

What we are saying here is that doses from the approved manufacturers are going to be coming into Canada in the next weeks and months in full force. We know this because these vaccine companies began producing vaccines prior to approval. They have evaluated their own production lines to ascertain that.... The fact that they are telling us that vaccines are available for delivery in Q2 is based on their own estimations of their production facilities.

That's how we can be confident that 20 million vaccines of Pfizer and Moderna are going to come in Q2, and that 70 million in total will come prior to the end of September. That's what we need to continue to say. Undermining that point of view by saying that it's impossible to occur is simply untrue, based on what we're being told from the vaccine manufacturers themselves.

That's what I'm relaying to you. It's not pie in the sky. It's not unicorns. It is based on what the vaccine suppliers are telling us as Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Minister Anand.

We'll now turn the floor over to MP Erskine-Smith.

You have five minutes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

I want to pick up on that need for clarity as it relates to the vaccine rollout schedule. I think it's important that we don't talk about doses, but we talk about the vaccinations that can occur for individuals. I think that is clearer for Canadians and certainly for my constituents.

For the two companies alone that have been approved—Pfizer and Moderna—three million people will be able to be vaccinated on the delivery schedule by the end of Q1, 13 million people by Q2, and 36 million people by Q3.

Is that correct, Minister Anand?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

It will be three million by the end of Q1, 13 million by the end of Q2, and 36 million by the end of Q3 with approved vaccine candidates alone.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

As it relates to the additional agreements that are in place.... Obviously, AstraZeneca has been approved in a number of other jurisdictions, so one would think Health Canada could approve it in short order. If AstraZeneca is approved, how many people might be vaccinated based on that delivery schedule by Q2?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

We are expecting doses of AstraZeneca in Q2, and once that regulatory approval has been obtained, we will be able to ascertain the delivery schedule with the supplier. I will ask my deputy minister here if he would like to step in and clarify anything else, but I will say that there are variables that we need to take into account.

In addition to these AstraZeneca doses, under our bilateral agreement we are scouring the globe for additional doses of AstraZeneca that we can bring into the country as soon as possible. That is why we opted into the COVAX doses, for AstraZeneca.

The other G7 countries already have doses of AstraZeneca. That was not something that they chose to do. We are also going to work with our supplier itself, to move up those doses as soon as possible. Those variables are really important to take into account.

I'll hand it over to Bill Matthews.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I appreciate that. I have just a small amount of time.

I'll move to Mr. Kennedy.

The decline of the domestic manufacturing capacity for vaccines is well documented, going back to the privatization of Connaught Labs in the Mulroney years. You are an ex officio member of the vaccine task force. We have heard John Bell from Oxford in the media here in Canada say that the U.K. went from near-zero production capacity to full-fledged production capacity.

What were the conversations at the task force? If it was determined that it was not feasible to do the same thing here in Canada, what was the nature of those conversations and the advice of the task force at the time?

[Simon Kennedy, Deputy Minister, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, Department of Industry]

Perhaps I can try to give a quick answer.

I can't really get into the internal deliberations of the task force. I can say that we did meet and discuss with the U.K. vaccine task force. We were quite interested in learning the lessons from other countries. On this issue of the U.K. experience and of domestic biomanufacturing, I said that my ministry did an extensive survey of the biomanufacturing capabilities in Canada. We did that with the support of expert consultants. This was very early last spring, in the early days of the pandemic.

To take the U.K. as an example, the U.K. had a number of very large contract manufacturing operators that were capable of quickly shifting to produce COVID vaccines. The U.K. had also started years before the pandemic, in fact in 2017, to launch a significant rebuilding strategy. For one of the big facilities they are building, which won't be ready until later this year, they launched the construction in 2019, a year before the pandemic hit.

As Minister Champagne said, the U.K. certainly pivoted and was able to do manufacturing domestically, but they were starting from a much higher base, including having facilities—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Kennedy, I appreciate that, but the last point to be made, I suppose, is from constituents, when they say they want to make sure that something like this never happens again, where we face a situation like this and we don't have the necessary national security fundamental to our domestic manufacturing capacity for vaccines.

When it comes to Medicago, Precision NanoSystems, Variation Biotechnologies and the Biologics Manufacturing Centre, can you walk us through, briefly at least, the investments that we are making to make sure this never happens again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Be very quick, because we're out of time.

[Simon Kennedy]

Members will know that not all vaccines are the same. There are different platforms. There's messenger RNA. There's viral vector. There are proteins.

The advice we got, much as was the case with these international purchases, was that to have domestic security of supply, we really need to be looking at investments across a portfolio of different kinds of manufacturing technology. In the investments that have been made—I can speak to this later if there's interest—we have been trying to cover those various kinds of technologies and platforms so that we're not dependent on just one thing.

I'll stop there.