Industry Committee on May 4th, 2021

[Mark Zacharias]

A number of elements go into the definition of “nimble”. One is government policy, particularly at the federal, provincial and territorial levels, that when we do have opportunities for new companies to come and set up shop in Canada, attracting anchor companies, we have to [Technical difficulty—Editor] those.

If you look at Quebec's Lion Electric, they have been getting orders for Amazon trucks and trucks for UPS. They're doing incredibly well. Lion Electric is also looking at becoming a battery manufacturer. They had a recent announcement. That's one example of where government intervention has allowed this to become more nimble. I would also look at another example in Quebec around attracting hydrogen. It's a very large new 88 megawatt hydrogen facility. I think that's great news for Canada.

Canadian industries have the ability to compete globally. With a bit of help and a bit of transition, they are able to do so.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I would love to have been able to go into hydrogen, but I'm out of time.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, MP Jowhari.

We will now turn to Monsieur Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question goes to Mr. Chornet from Enerkem.

Mr. Chornet, thank you for joining us today. Thank you also for your technology, which meets a need, as I see it. You are making us aware of the importance of seeing the value in ultimate waste.

Could you also talk to us about any negative impact that you at Enerkem see for Quebec and Canada? By that, I mean the lack of a clear regulatory framework in Canada as to a minimum content of biofuel produced from waste and a standard for low-carbon fuel.

[Michel Chornet]

Currently, outside markets, specifically in Europe or the United States, are more attractive because they have regulations in place encouraging the use of second-generation, low-carbon fuel, or the products of green chemistry. It is more advantageous for Enerkem to sell its products in California or in Europe, because the regulations there are reasonable and encourage the choice of green chemistry, also called circular chemistry.

Canada will have to create the market conditions needed for projects to be undertaken and biofuels to be used. Otherwise, Canada will not be able to take full advantage of the greenhouse gas reductions associated with the use of biofuels, or of green chemistry.

The Clean Fuel Standard, which is in the process of being developed, could lead to a regulatory framework that would encourage the availability and use of biofuels in Canada. But, in our view, that framework must absolutely include lifecycle analysis. Diverting all the waste from landfill sites must be recognized with credits. There must also be an established percentage of circular or biological components. In addition, renewable hydrogen and renewable electricity must be recognized as having a carbon intensity of zero in order to ensure that production in Canada can increase. This has already been done in California.

In our view, producers of low-carbon fuel must be allowed to buy renewable energy off-site in order to reduce their carbon footprint. The process is known as “book and claim”.

Lastly, credits must be awarded for diverting residual forest biomass—meaning bark and other left-overs—and reducing final uses that generate more greenhouse gases, such as burning fallen timber.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So the incentives you are looking at would be a clear Canadian regulatory framework, which would include a minimum content of biofuels produced from waste material, and a standard for low-carbon fuels.

What else do Quebec and Canada have to do to encourage favourable and competitive market conditions for bioenergy?

Do you have any specific recommendations for the government with a view to increasing its investments?

[Michel Chornet]

In our view, there must be consistency in life-cycle support for technological innovation. Programs like Sustainable Development Technology Canada or the Strategic Innovation Fund could be used, for example. The strategic innovation fund should especially be used to provide incentives for those who first become involved in new technologies. That would be a tangible step forward.

As I mentioned just now, buying renewable electricity off-site must be allowed. It's called the "book and claim" approach. At the moment, we are not able to use it, which is absurd, in our view. It is in use in other places around the world. It encourages countries to produce biofuels or low-carbon chemical products.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You mentioned the strategic innovation fund. It's a great program.

Have you used that program? How did it work for you?

[Michel Chornet]

With full disclosure, I have to tell you that we tried to obtain support from that program. We followed the administrative process, which is very onerous, for a number of years. Despite that, we did not obtain support.

During that time, we worked with international players like Shell, Suncor, Repsol and Proman, so that they could recognize our expertise and our technology. They agreed to invest in it.

The strategic innovation fund process turned out to be a little difficult for us and nothing came of it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So, as I understand it, the federal government's principal fund was of no use to you, although you are working directly in the field.

For Enerkem, or for Quebec and Canada more broadly, what would be the advantage in adding a carbon-footprint criterion to the federal government's public calls for tender?

[Michel Chornet]

It creates a market for us and it is a good idea because it stimulates technology and innovation. We work in partnership with the industry and we have a principle whereby everyone is part of the solution. As a result, the industry is motivated to innovate.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Speaking of favourable market conditions, could a standard for low-carbon biofuel open doors for you on the international market?

[Michel Chornet]

It is always easier to export a solution that has been shown to be effective here. In our view, the Quebec-Canada brand strategy is already very strong internationally. But it would speed up the development of Canadian technologies, which could then be exported internationally.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I see another problem: we are not paying enough for our garbage and, as a result, your access to your raw material is limited. Is that the case?

[Michel Chornet]

That is the case, but a bigger issue is that we have no quantity standards for circular products. Such standards could require that a certain percentage of plastic in a product be circular, be recycled, in other words.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Next up is MP Masse.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question will be for Ms. Sumner.

You mentioned Windsor as being the flood capital of Canada. I'd prefer it be known as the auto capital, especially the green auto capital for the future with EVs and battery development, but that's a side issue.

One of the things I'm struggling to figure out is how we look at some of the programs that are rolling out. There is the tree-planting program and an urban infrastructure program. There's a series of different initiatives that are out there, but there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive coordination of all those programs. Is that also missing some opportunity from the province?

What are your thoughts on this? It's almost like having a master plan, city by city, so to speak, from federal incentives to green our environment and increase our spaces for eco-recovery.

[Janet Sumner]

What we have right now is a good start. It's the promise of investments in building new urban protection and near-urban protection, a tree-planting program, investments in nature-based solutions, and an ability to hopefully see more natural infrastructure investments.

I would suggest that the piece that is missing is how to be more intentional about these. You could take any number of municipalities, but if you look at Windsor, you have the possibility to do new urban protection. Even offshore you have the ability to do a national marine conservation area. You can invest in natural infrastructure at the same time as you're doing the fuller landscape. You can look at creating jobs and economic opportunity by restoring habitat and working with farmers on hydrology changes that would benefit the farming community, but also benefit increasing our resilience to climate change.

That works very well across the Golden Horseshoe as well where you see everything from the Rouge to Cootes to Escarpment EcoPark, the Toronto ravines, natural infrastructure and the Greenbelt. All of that could be more intentional and working in harmony and then linking in and making a bigger objective rather than each of those individual programs in isolation.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes.

When I was doing a lot of my border work I met a gentleman named Stan Korosec who did a lot of border work for Sarnia and for Windsor. He actually was an OPP officer and later on he got special training on how to use the environment for security instead of putting up fences and so on.

We had the Toronto Community Benefits Network here.

Is there an opportunity to get our young people into different areas? For instance, there is a bridge being built and I know you and others have been supportive for a national urban park in that area.

What are the opportunities of getting young people into a skilled trade, so to speak, for some of these infrastructure projects? It could be transferable skills or it could be skills they could use in other places. It was similar when I was growing up. People would go tree planting from one place to another.

Is there a real opportunity here for jobs that could be transferable and used in multiple locations, almost like a high-degree trainable asset that would last for young people?

[Janet Sumner]

Yes, I quite agree with you, MP Masse.

In the Rouge, for example, I know that they've employed over 100 students to help monitor but also to work on the reintroduction of species that are native to the area. Those summer jobs are more than just tree planting.

That's the other thing. The job opportunities with nature are often seen as reductive down to, “Oh, we're going to plant some trees.” That's certainly part of it. The other aspect is scientific monitoring. They work with the academic institutions, the University of Toronto Scarborough campus, and they work with the Toronto Zoo. It's engaging young people and giving them career paths to perhaps a bigger and brighter future by working with these different institutions in enabling the science, actually making it real, and bringing these areas back to life.

I think in every community that you were engaged with on this there is an opportunity to bring in youth as well as indigenous partners and indigenous jobs in terms of bringing back the native species, learning ceremony, and learning how to invest in these natural areas.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Similarly, when we think about a place like mine, traditionally you're thinking about skilled trades. Going back to the old days, it could be working on auto skills or woodworking skills, so forth, even some electrical plumbing.

Once you learn these environmental infrastructure skills, are there also those skills that you bring back to your own home, your own neighbourhood, to your own community, perhaps as a volunteer? Is there greater sophistication of using those types of skills to better enhance when you're off, so to speak, when you're not involved in these projects, like adding a value-added capacity like we've never seen before? I would suggest even retraining not just young people, but also retraining for that. Is there value in that?

[Janet Sumner]

I think you will notice that the garden centres have probably doubled and tripled their business because of the pandemic and the desire of Canadians to get out and be in nature but also to start reclaiming it in their own backyards, whether it's growing plants on their balcony, growing fruits and vegetables in their backyards, etc. It's this ability of people to connect with nature, have jobs that are about rebuilding with nature at the heart of it, but also taking that into their homes and building those connections for their children, their extended family and their entire community. I think that those skill sets and starting to see the natural world in a different way are completely transferable.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

I see you have the card, Madam Chair, so thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We'll now start our second round and we'll start with Monsieur Généreux.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for joining us.

My question goes to Mr. Chornet, from Enerkem.

Mr. Chornet, in 2010, the Conservative government of the day and the Liberal government in Quebec announced an investment in a project to process putrescible waste. It was called the Société d'économie mixte d'énergie renouvelable de la région de Rivière-du-Loup, or SEMER. Perhaps you have heard of it. The project saw the light of day in my region.

At the start, it was a $12 million project. It became a $24 million project and now it's close to $30 million. To this day, SEMER has not managed to earn enough income to cover its costs. That has a significant effect on the environmental cost of the project.

I supported the project and I still support it. In 2005, I was the mayor of La Pocatière, and the Government of Quebec decided to implement a policy to recycle all the putrescible waste in Quebec in 2020. We are now in 2021 and the timeline has been changed.

Do you believe that the policies that governments establish should be fulfilled in their entirety?

From the answers you gave my colleague Mr. Lemire, I gather that you have encountered a lot of difficulties along the way.