Industry Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I'll turn it over to MP Hutchings. Thank you.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Thank you, colleague, for sharing your time.

Ministers, it's great to have you both here with us today.

Minister Monsef, I have a question for you. Minister Ng, I'd like your comments on her reply afterwards. We all know that UBF and connect to innovate are connecting households and individuals. We know how important connectivity is for education and for health and safety. It also has a huge economic benefit.

Ministers, I'm asking you both to speak about the economic benefits, now that we're ensuring that Canadians will have access to reliable and affordable high-speed Internet. Minister Monsef, you can speak locally, and Minister Ng, if you could, from your portfolio of small business and international trade.

Over to you, Minister.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you so much, MP Hutchings.

The studies that have been done on broadband and the work that's been done in Canada before clearly show that there is a direct link between connectivity and job creation and economic development.

What we are seeing in studies—for example in Europe, which is much smaller and has much less complex geography than ours—is that there's a 32% increase in the gross domestic product when connectivity is achieved. For every dollar invested, there are a whole range of economic impacts that simply lead to jobs.

We're seeing it now. There are businesses in my community and across the country on Main Street that aren't able to benefit from the same kind of customers showing up and engaging in commerce. These businesses are ready to go online. They are ready to make that big leap, but because they don't have access, they can't open up their businesses to a range of customers.

This Christmas I hope that as Canadians we are all going to be encouraging a “buy local” initiative. That “buy local” initiative can take place online. Where it can't, those businesses on Main Street need our support, now more than ever, so that they can get through this difficult winter.

We will be there to connect them to high-speed Internet. We will be there to support them in all the ways that Minister Ng just mentioned, while connectivity will definitely lead to economic growth and opportunities for the young and the young at heart.

[Gudie Hutchings, Liberal, Long Range Mountains, NL]

Minister Ng, it's over to you.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Absolutely. Thank you so much for that terrific question.

Just building on what Minister Monsef said, I think having this connectivity is absolutely crucial. Not only is it going to help our businesses weather the storms that are COVID-19 so that they can serve more customers, but going digital will actually mean that they can have access to more customers.

I took a trade mission to South Korea just last week—a virtual trade mission, the first of its kind. Over 200 businesses came with me to expand their business abroad.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

I apologize, Minister. That's all the time for that slot.

Mr. Lemire, it is your turn. You have six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Minister Monsef.

I must confess that I was especially eager for her to appear today, given what was happening when the committee met with her on May 11. We were in the throes of the pandemic at that time, and I had high expectations that she would be able to grasp the scale of the challenge facing Canadians. As we know, the pandemic underscored the importance of Internet access for teleworkers and students doing their schooling online, just to name a few. I expected a concrete plan, but I was patient back then.

Minister, it is now November 19. It's great that you loved your red cell phone when you were younger, but the fact remains that we know nothing more about the program.

Last week, you announced your plan to increase your connectivity target to 98% of Canadians by 2026. That is ambitious, but I am inclined to think that the remaining 2% will be mostly in my riding. I don't see progress being made as far as the various programs are concerned. To my mind, the 98% of Canadians who will have connectivity will live in urban centres, as you mentioned.

Will you adapt the programming to take into account the needs of very rural areas, rather than putting the money towards connectivity in urban centres?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I think that's a really important question, and I appreciate being here to speak with you about this, but if you have further questions, we should talk.

Canada does have a plan. It didn't have a plan until we formed government, but there is a connectivity plan, and I encourage you to take a look and let me know what you think about it.

The universal broadband fund is the second phase of the program to help implement that plan. The first phase of our plan included the connect to innovate program. That program is connecting millions of Canadians to high-speed Internet. We've learned from that program and the programs in the past, and this program is going to get us to 98% connectivity by 2026, with the other 2%, being in the most difficult-to-reach communities and geographic areas across the country, connected through other options—for example, with low-earth orbit satellites.

The plan includes a rapid response stream. We heard about communities that have needs that could be met right now. That antenna on the house example I gave earlier is one of those. They said that for COVID purposes and to move as quickly as possible...include a $150-million stream for rapid response.

The plan also includes a $1-billion component for cell service, for backbone and for last mile. It also includes fibre. It's a program that is ready to go.

I want to be very clear about something with my colleagues. This isn't an aspirational plan, like the ones that governments over the past 20 years have put forward. This is an actual program that is connecting people as we speak, by the end of this year, which thankfully is about a month away.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Ms. Monsef, sorry to interrupt, but those are things I would have liked to hear in your opening statement.

You announced calls for applications and you received submissions this summer. When will applicants under the connect to innovate program receive an answer?

This is November, and we are in the middle of a pandemic. Some good news would be welcome.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

As I was saying, by the end of this year tens of thousands of households will be connected, and that's in about a month. By the end of next year, over a quarter of a million households will be connected. By the following year, close to half a million households will be connected—and that's just what the federal government is doing.

Our plan includes a deliberate attempt to coordinate existing efforts across the country, including provinces and territories like yours. I was speaking with Minister Fitzgibbon not too long ago, and we're coordinating our efforts to connect every community in Quebec to this essential service.

This isn't aspirational. We have targets; we have timelines. The federal government has put its entire force behind it, with the most significant investment ever. In fact, if you add up all previous investments in broadband, our government has invested 10 times more in the past five years than all previous governments combined.

We are serious about this. This is an essential service—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The problem is that the programs are often ill-suited. Take, for example, the $200,000 project in support of backbone infrastructure to connect 294 households in the municipality of Moffet. That is a great project, but it's going to take five years just to build the 50 kilometres of backbone infrastructure. After waiting five years, residents still won't have connectivity because a service provider has to come in and offer the service but is under no obligation to connect the households.

There is a serious design flaw in the program, because people can still end up with no service when the project is complete. Obviously, given your statistics, you are happy to say that you are connecting households.

The responsiveness of the programs matters, and if you were to reach out to the Quebec government, you would find that it is prepared to put up money.

This is a very simple question. Why don't you give the money to the Quebec government so it can set up a more tailored program to connect regions in Quebec?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Madam Chair, I saw the yellow card. Do I still have time to answer very quickly?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

You have 10 seconds.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Okay.

If my colleague would like a briefing on how we're working with Quebec to support the people of Quebec, I am happy to offer it to him.

This is a complex program, a complex project. It's the most significant national infrastructure project of our time, and having a conversation and that briefing might go a long way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, Minister.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to start by tabling a notice of motion for future discussion for the committee. I'll read the motion briefly and then move from there into my questioning. It reads:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study of C-11, the Digital Charter Implementation Act (An Act to enact the Consumer Privacy Protection Act and the Personal Information and Data Protection Tribunal Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts).

The clerk has that and it will be distributed. That's to ensure that we have participation with new legislation that has been tabled in the House of Commons.

Thank you, Ministers, for being here. My first question is for Minister Ng.

One thing that has been a real problem for small business is that the original programs that were rolled out were landlord-approved, and that put a lot of small businesses in dependent relationships, and actually abusive relationships at times, given some of the market conditions, not only in mid-range cities like mine in Windsor, but in larger ones and even smaller ones.

Can you tell me why you made the landlords actually the boss of helping small businesses? Where did that logic come from? How is that going to be fixed now, because we still have so many small businesses right on the brink? It's been about a year's delay for help for them because of this, I guess, strategic decision, which has not really been helpful.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you so much, MP Masse. It's wonderful to see you. You and I used to serve on that committee together, so it's even more wonderful to get a question from you.

Right from the very beginning, we wanted to be sure that this support and fixed cost, in particular rent...because we know how big an expenditure that is for businesses every single month, and with revenues going down, how difficult it was going to be for them.

I just want to remind everyone that, of course, rent is not an area of federal responsibility, but rather one where we must work with our partners at the other orders of government, which we did.

I think what Canadians will see, and colleagues will see, is that we have listened, and continue to listen, to businesses. We are working with our colleagues on all sides of the House so that we are adapting.

What we have right now is, of course, the new rent subsidy bill, which means that businesses can apply directly and get this really important support, where they'll get 65%...and if they are locked down because of public health measures, they will get an additional 25% of lockdown support. This is direct support to them.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I appreciate that. We can't go back and make up for lost time now, but what we can do is provide better service to the small businesses. Can you give us deadlines and times so that businesses can plan for this now?

Quite frankly, the way it was rolled out was a problem. That's why it has changed. That's why it's different now. We're glad for that part, but what we're still a little concerned about are the timelines, especially with much of the country going back into a second wave. There's still a lot of uncertainty. Can you give us specific dates in order to ensure there are going to be proper resources for actually processing the necessary casework? Those extensions of time are killing so many small businesses.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Yes, I absolutely appreciate that. I share that urgency for that help, particularly as businesses are tackling the second wave. We of course passed Bill C-9 just last week. It's in the Senate now. We hope it will get through as quickly as possible.

I want to remind businesses—and colleagues, of course—that it will be backdated to September 26. It's going to go through a system that is very similar to the wage subsidy, and many businesses that are going through the wage subsidy through the CRA portal are going to see a lot of familiarity. We want to make this easy for businesses so they can get access to this really important support.

Like I said, the 25% in lockdown support means, effectively, that if you are locked down, you get up to 90% of that rent paid, which I think is going to go a long way in helping these businesses.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, as long as they can stay alive. That's the key thing.

I want to move now to Minister Monsef, please.

With regard to broadband, I know you've recognized that they've been waiting for decades, and for decades I've been raising the fact that we have abused our spectrum auction. We've actually taken in $22 billion in spectrum auctions and passed on some of the highest consumer costs to Canadians. On top of that, we've also taken that money and not put it back into rolling out a plan across Canada.

We have a spectrum auction now that's delayed. Can you tell us why it's delayed and why we're not using the spectrum auction to facilitate more broadband rollout right now?

Again, both Liberal and Conservative governments have benefited by over $22 billion. We have limited competition and I would argue.... Maxime Bernier came to this committee and said that he had a plan for Canada. That didn't work out too well.

When can we see the spectrum auction actually used to facilitate penetration and affordability? If we build systems that people can't afford, we're actually further disadvantaging people. That is a significant disadvantage to rural, remote and lower-income Canadians, who can't compete for school and can't compete for business. They're also left behind in the social realm, because they can't get on and use the type of infrastructure that's necessary.

Lastly, it's a responsibility for the government as we get rid of bricks and mortar and put stuff online. We saw through the immigration policies how it hurt people, because they couldn't do it quickly enough.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Madam Chair, how much time do I have to respond?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

You have 30 seconds.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

MP Masse, you're absolutely right about the spectrum auction being pushed back. It was pushed back because industry asked for it, and Minister Bains pushed it back to June 2021 because of COVID.

You're also absolutely right about the need for access and quality, as well as affordability. What the universal broadband fund is going to do, particularly for backbone projects, is require an affordability component and an open-access component.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

I have a quick reminder. The yellow card means that you have 30 seconds. This means that your time is up. I want to make sure everyone gets their time.

We'll now start the second round. Our first round of questions goes to Mr. Kelly.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Good morning, Ministers.

I think my questions are probably all going to be for Minister Ng.

On what date will applications for the rent subsidy begin?