Evidence of meeting #12 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was minerals.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Greg Rickford  Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario
Benoît Plante  Professor, Université du Québec en Abitibi-Témiscamingue, As an Individual
Peter Xavier  Vice-President, Sudbury INO, Glencore Canada
Josée Méthot  President and Chief Executive Officer, Québec Mining Association
Robert Kunihiro  Director, Strategy, StromVolt Americas Inc.
Amanda Hall  Geophysicist, Summit Nanotech Corporation
A. J. Nichols  Director, Corporate Affairs, Vale Canada Limited
Juan Merlini  Global Director, Sales and Marketing, Base Metals, Vale Canada Limited

March 22nd, 2022 / 3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the twelfth meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Thank you to the witnesses for being patient today. I apologize for the delay; there was a vote in the House.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, January 26, 2022, the committee is meeting to study the sourcing and processing of critical minerals. Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members may attend in person or use the Zoom application. I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants of this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. As for the public health measures in place, at this stage, you know them all, so behave accordingly.

It is my pleasure to introduce today's witnesses. First of all, I must point out that the meeting will end at 5:45 p.m. We're going to try to take all the time allocated to us and spend as much time as possible with our witnesses.

The first part of the meeting will end at 4:45 p.m.; from the Government of Ontario, we will welcome the Honourable Greg Rickford, Minister of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry.

During the second hour, we will have Mr. Benoît Plante, professor at the Université du Québec en Abitibi-Témiscamingue; Mr. Peter Xavier, vice-president of Sudbury INO at Glencore Canada; from the Québec Mining Association, Ms. Josée Méthot, president and chief executive officer; from Stromvolt Americas, Mr. Robert Kunihiro, director of strategy; from Summit Nanotech, Amanda Hall, a geophysicist; and, finally, from Vale Canada Limited, Mr. Juan Merlini, global director of sales and marketing; and Mr. A. J. Nichols, director of corporate affairs.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us.

Without further ado, I give the floor to Mr. Rickford.

Minister, you have the floor for six minutes. We will then move on to the first round of questions.

3:55 p.m.

Greg Rickford Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to this important standing committee. Industry and technology folks would know that Canada is well-positioned—and for the purposes of today's discussion the province of Ontario as well—to seize, especially in the context of ensuing global strife, a position unlike any other in the history of certainly our province, Canada and the world over in the critical mineral space.

Why? Well, there are probably a couple of reasons.

First of all, countries like Russia and China have a stranglehold on the access and processing capacity of many of the critical minerals that are used today in various technologies, especially the ones that are most exciting to all of us for environmental purposes: electric vehicle and electric battery capacity and, of course, storage potential as well.

All of these things can and will happen, and are happening, in Ontario, and for the benefit of this country. The residual question for us all, colleagues, is about bringing critical minerals home to Canada, and for my purposes, Ontario. It is about being involved in the single biggest environmental policy ever advanced by a jurisdiction the world over. It will bring world-class standards in labour and the environment, while working with our indigenous communities, which is always a work in progress as part of our value proposition. We think there's a role for the federal government, and that's why I am thrilled to be here today.

This started out for me, in the context of my provincial career, at PDAC a couple of years ago, when Joseph Semsar, the former U.S. acting under secretary for international trade, approached Ontario, and myself directly, to discuss the need to build out a secure and stable supply of critical minerals, and to meet the growing demand across northern Ontario.

Move the clock ahead a couple of years to just the past week or two, and we've seen some interesting things. President Biden laid claim to a domestic supply chain, and the need thereof of critical minerals; it's pretty interesting for a president who doesn't have any. His reference to a domestic supply chain necessarily includes Canada at least for the extraction, likely for the processing, and, if we have our way, a significant part of the integrated supply chain, especially in vehicle and battery storage technologies.

Then, just yesterday, Premier Ford, and my friend and colleague Minister Fedeli, got back from Washington. They had a robust agenda to talk about with our U.S. counterparts, and very quickly in every single meeting, it was dominated by discussions around critical minerals.

So, friends and colleagues, this is very real to us. If I've put a value proposition out there for the province of Ontario, it necessarily includes every single province in Canada. We're all busy with critical mineral strategies. We're likely ahead of the curve in some of our jurisdictions, but there's no question our friends in Quebec and especially British Columbia have created aggressive environments for investment in critical minerals, most notably lithium, in the case of Quebec, and various others in British Columbia.

But the demand has been met with opportunity. Our rollout last week of Ontario's first-ever critical minerals strategy, with a solid financial footing with which to advance it, moves it out of the class of strategies, for which governments are renowned for producing, and lesser known for acting on.

This is targeted. It focuses on exploration and innovation in the sector.

We have launched Ontario’s first-ever critical minerals strategy and invested $29 million in programs that will advance exploration and innovation in the sector.

Our strategy includes an injection into Ontario's biggest challenge and now opportunity. That's on the exploration side.

Through the Ontario junior exploration program, which includes a new critical minerals stream, we also have a component for a critical mineral investment fund to kick-start innovation for mining and processing capabilities. We don't want to just be miners, friends and colleagues; we want to be involved in the process.

We're well on our way. Cobalt, Ontario, is going to have the first cobalt processing facility and capacity in North America in the not-too-distant future. We see a bright horizon for lithium as well, working with our counterparts around the world to develop the capacity to process.

In fact, in all the excitement of this discussion, I forgot to mention the European Union, which we met with. The European Union wants to set up a strategic alliance with the Province of Ontario. It sees partnerships in Norway and in Germany around processing capacity, something we can learn from those jurisdictions. It knows where it needs to go. It's tired, of course, and fearful of long-term relationships with countries like China and Russia. Ontario, and I believe Canada, is at the precipice of greatness in the critical mineral space.

Our strategy includes the extraordinary opportunities that we see in the Ring of Fire, a multigenerational potential to produce some of the highest-grade nickel—nickel sulphide—chromite and other critical minerals, including titanium, palladium and the like, coming to a theatre near you. In fact, some of them are being produced and co-operatively developed and processed in some of our more peaceful partners, as I mentioned, in the European Union. That's why it wants to be partners with us.

We believe that responsible mineral development in this region would unlock unprecedented economic prosperity for vast municipalities and indigenous communities across the far north, at least in Ontario, and certainly, from my own experience in the federal chapter of my career, for the benefit of communities in the far north, most notably indigenous and Inuit communities.

As Prime Minister Harper and I discussed at some point in a previous career, we can no longer stand by and see these incredible mining opportunities developed in close proximity to indigenous communities and see, even with resources going to them from the activity itself, a level of poverty that is well known to all of us.

This is an exciting opportunity. That's why we committed close to $1 billion to support legacy infrastructure projects, particularly for the Ring of Fire. Frankly, the greenstone belt that runs just to the south of it has some of the most exciting open-pit and subsurface mining operations that have come on board in the past three years like has never happened before.

These include cost-sharing agreements to secure an opportunity of national significance for future generations. Notably, our successes in moving a number of key mining projects across critical milestones have evolved with full co-operation and partnerships with indigenous communities and their businesses. They have put into effect substantial and substantive elements of the business, environmental and labour contours to these successful developments. We want to keep that going.

We've also included investments into electric battery materials. We're exploring the expansion of a business model to include building an industrial battery park in Cobalt, Ontario in that region of northeastern Ontario.

Also, as I alluded to earlier, there are some exciting innovations with companies like Frontier Lithium.

We know there are many other advanced lithium projects coming close to production, so we must explore partnerships for lithium hydroxide processing capabilities in strategic locations such as Thunder Bay.

I have countless other examples of a long and integrated supply chain. Ontario knows that we can bring to Canada's storefront offerings for some of the most exciting technological developments, not just in the automotive sector, not just in the technology sector, but also for opportunities like national defence. Also, of course, it's not only a robust supply chain here in Ontario, from extraction to deploying these technologies, but as well in global supply chains.

We need the federal government, colleagues. We need you there up in Ottawa to support us. I know there are other great things going on in other provinces that members on this committee represent, and I'm happy to have those discussions.

I'll stand down now and take your questions and comments.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

That you very much, Minister Rickford, and thanks for sharing some of the work that you're doing in Ontario. It's much appreciated by committee members.

We'll start now with our first round of questions with Mr. Généreux.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

We sat together in the House of Commons for a year and a half in 2009 to 2011, so it's a pleasure to meet you here today.

Rick... Sorry, I meant to say Greg...

4:05 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

Don't worry, I get called Rick, but with a consonant in front of that sometimes, but we're politicians and we go by a lot of names.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

You talked about the importance of a national strategy that would of course include those from Ontario, Quebec and other provinces.

Practically speaking, what does Ontario expect from the federal government in terms of a national strategy?

4:05 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

That's a great question, Bernie, and it's great to see you.

I think two things come to mind. The first one is political and perhaps government-related. The other one is strategic business concepts.

In the first instance, I think that the federal government has to ensure that it's aligned with things that are happening on the ground. Sometimes we wind up at cross-purposes. I've written about Bill C-69 and some of my concerns about it, but you know, it didn't take very long and it was plonked down on the Ring of Fire without any consultation with the provincial government. That was unfortunate. To the credit of Minister O'Regan, he saved the day and we were able—with our partners in the private sector and some of the indigenous communities, and hopefully the federal government will announce it shortly—to ring-fence the impact assessment, or whatever they're calling it, to the mining activity itself, leaving us alone to move ahead with what we're calling the “corridor to prosperity”.

We don't build mines in Ontario as a government. We provide the right conditions for those to proceed. Certainly, the levers that are most accessible to us are things like building legacy infrastructure for health, social and economic policy objectives that I think isolated indigenous communities and more remote municipalities have a serious interest in.

There was a good recovery on the part of the federal government, as we understand, and hopefully the federal government will bring more clarity and certainty in the coming days or week that that's the case.

There's getting together on legacy infrastructure projects. Watay Power in northwestern Ontario, one of the largest-scale hydro projects, has a great relationship with the federal government, a joint investment that will electrify communities that I've lived and worked in back in the day as a nurse, working as a lawyer, and represented politically, Bernard—

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

I have another question, Greg.

4:05 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

I know you do, Bernie, but I've just got to get this out.

On the business concept side, it's simply to make sure that we complement each other as provinces in what we can and can't do.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

You are no doubt aware of the sale of Neo Lithium to a Chinese group, which was concluded in the last few months. We in the Conservative Party believe that there should have been a more thorough analysis of the sale of this important deposit, which is not in Canada, but involves a company incorporated in this country.

In the future, should we do an automatic analysis of the potential sale of a mine, processed products and anything else involving the minerals we're talking about today?

4:10 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

I think we have an obligation to do it, quite frankly, Bernie, as collective jurisdictions that comprise a confederation called Canada.

The world has come to our doorstep. They've asked us to do more than just mine. They want us to process. They want us to present the opportunity for a fully integrated supply chain.

There's a stranglehold by the current leaders, China and Chinese companies, as well as Russia, especially when it comes to nickel and a couple of other critical minerals that they could cut off at any point in time.

The United States is scurrying around looking for the future of this. I think it's right at their doorstep, frankly. It's called Quebec. It's called Ontario. It's called British Columbia. It's called Manitoba. It's called Canada. From a government and business perspective, I think we have an obligation to offer that to the world.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Are there specific partnerships between Ontario and Quebec on critical minerals?

4:10 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

We do forums through FPTs. Through PDAC, later this spring, we are looking at crystallizing some good discussion points to formalize a venue where we could do complementary work as governments and as businesses.

Obviously, the excitement around lithium in Quebec is justified. In terms of processing and manufacturing, there may be some limitations there that Ontario can help with. I think that jointly we're well positioned in the centre of Canada to do business with the corridor in the United States that they've asked us directly to be involved with.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you, Mr. Rickford. That's all the time we have.

We'll now move to Mr. Fillmore for six minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Mr. Rickford, it's a pleasure to meet you. You have carriage of the critical minerals file at a historic moment in its role and the way we address the future. With great sincerity, I wish you the best of luck with your strategy.

Ontario right now has, I think, about 130 early exploration projects and about 16 projects that are kind of at a more advanced stage, so there's some catch-up that needs to be done there. I was wondering if you could share with the committee a little bit about how the strategy will bring some balance to that 130 versus 16.

How are you going to catch those other projects up?

4:10 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

We could catch a lot of those projects up right now, Andy, if we could have regulatory certainty from the federal government on some of our major projects, including the Ring of Fire. This is a positive non-partisan conversation that we need to have and it's happening right now here today. That does prevent us from moving ahead, certainly.

For the purposes of our strategy, this is a great question and a great opportunity for us. Obviously, on the junior exploration side, it's important to lock down and identify, as we have, some of the highest grade of nickel supply in quantity and quality, which is in the Ring of Fire. Its closest comparison would likely be Indonesia, which has to extract it from pig iron and burn off a lot of coal in order to do it.

These are projects that must move ahead. We've moved a couple of major gold mine projects across critical milestones, most notably leave to construct, operation or expansion. Of note, at least in one instance, the Borden mine site is completely electrified.

We've had our own regulatory challenges, I have to admit. We have a bit of a hangover from the previous decade and a half of the last government. We've been working on red tape reduction in our own shop to make sure that these mines can move forward. We're not going to compromise the environmental standards or any of the opportunities with our indigenous communities as partners.

For the collective effort, certainly in the context of our discussion today, we all have to be singing from the same songbook.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Thank you for that.

You mentioned indigenous partners and we're hearing from mining companies and mining organizations about the importance of indigenous consultation and including indigenous communities as partners.

Could you enlighten us on how the strategy is going to help to bring impacted first nations along to get on board with specific projects and also how we can help to make sure that those nations share in the prosperity that might result?

4:15 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

For the first answer, I go back to my opening comment. Who doesn't want to be part of the single biggest environmental policy that any jurisdiction could advance the world over? That's a new and refreshing way to think about this. There is no green economy without mining. That's very clear.

If you look at some of the more contentious matters that indigenous communities have raised, they are underpinned by concerns about the environment, obviously environmental concerns in the propinquity of any mining development that may occur to their reserve for the purposes of the Indian Act or their traditional lands and the collective interests of various treaties.

I can tell you from experience. I mentioned these major mining projects that we've advanced in the past couple of years. They are characterized by significant partnerships and roles by indigenous communities or their indigenous businesses in the business contours of a given project, in the environmental processes and contours ultimately of the project, and of course, importantly, labour. I speak more pointedly of human resources and building capacity in those important areas.

That's why we're able to cut the ribbon on the east-west tie here in a couple of weeks. It's an important piece of infrastructure across northern Ontario that will fortify electrification to municipalities and indigenous communities but also be an additional source of power for some mining operations across the greenstone belt.

I'm trying to keep my answers short. I forgot that you guys have only about six minutes.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Minister, we have one minute left.

4:15 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

That's quite all right. It's very helpful.

I try to ask this question of each of the witnesses I've been able to speak with: What conditions is your strategy putting in place to facilitate battery recycling and getting the minerals back out when they're expended as a battery?

4:15 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

A lot of this has to be driven by the private sector. My own approach here, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks—or my unprepared remarks, because I didn't really read from the speech—is to have a regulatory environment that supports and facilitates that.

We want to be careful that we don't make the same mistakes as we have in some other mining operations and put the cart before the horse. We have to start producing these, and I take your point. There has to be a plan for life after electric vehicles. The legacy with respect to nuclear technologies is fast becoming “what do we do around nuclear waste management?”

It's an important point. It's one that should be given the kind of deference by provincial and federal governments to plan and prepare for, but it's not all on me, bro, right?

We all have to be in this together and I hope that question is as rhetorical as it would be for our jurisdiction to address in the not-too-distant future.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Thanks for that. We're just looking for good ideas on how we can make sure that those batteries are recyclable when they get expended.

I'm probably out of time here. Thank you for joining us today and making time for us. It's a pleasure to meet you.

4:15 p.m.

Minister, Ministry of Northern Development, Mines, Natural Resources and Forestry, Government of Ontario

Greg Rickford

You too, Andy. Thanks.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you now have the floor for six minutes.