Evidence of meeting #54 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Commissioner Bryan Larkin  Deputy Commissioner, Specialized Policing Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Samantha Hazen  Chief Financial Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

4 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

With regard to the future, I will say the RCMP and all of the agencies in my portfolio are continuing to evaluate very carefully any threats, any risks, that may apply.

When we have more to say about that, Mr. MacGregor, we will be sure to let you and others know.

4 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I appreciate that.

Reviews are important. I think governments sometimes use reviews to place a necessary pause on things. Sometimes they can take a while, though, and there are necessary public questions about government action or inaction given how much time they may take. We look at the time that was required to make a decision on Huawei. There was quite a long review on that before your government finally made a decision. We've had other ones.

I guess what I want to know, Minister, is that you have ordered all departments under the realm of public safety to commit to a review of their procurement practices. Am I quoting you correctly there?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Yes, but I would just like to clarify the premise of your question, if I can.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I just want to have a chance to ask my question.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Sure.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Am I quoting you right? You've asked for that review of procurement across the board.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I have, and I've asked all of the agencies within my portfolio to apply the strictest of standards and rigour when it comes to national security screening around procurement.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

I'm happy to hear that.

I guess what I want to know is this: Before you asked for this review, what was the standard? What we want to know is whether this review would have come with this particular company in question. Would this have been caught if there had not been a public outcry?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

First, I want to assure you and the public that the standards are already extremely high and robust. The proof of that is not only in the results of this case—and I have confidence in the assessment that has been done by the RCMP that there were no risks posed in the circumstances of this contract and the procurement and the services that were obtained as a result—but beyond that, we are deploying an array of tools every day, 24-7.

As you know, Mr. MacGregor, from your work on the public safety file, we have to be ever-vigilant about this. We are constantly reassessing and re-evaluating whether or not there are new threat factors that may be posed by hostile actors, which is why in this particular matter and in all matters we will apply a very strict standard. That is precisely the instructions I have issued to the agencies within this portfolio.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you.

Deputy Commissioner Larkin, it's good to see you again. Thank you for confirming that the RCMP did in fact find no security breaches.

I believe the contract required building the system, but also maintaining it. I want to focus on the maintenance part of it.

I understand this equipment does not have access to your end-to-end encryption and that the communication technology is secure. What kind of protocol does the RCMP have in place when an employee of this company, which is now under investigation, is on site maintaining this equipment? They are going to be in the vicinity of some pretty sensitive technology. What kinds of standards are in place to ensure that security is maintained in the future during the maintenance of the equipment?

4:05 p.m.

D/Commr Bryan Larkin

Through you, Mr. Chair, all employees are, again, mandatorily screened by our departmental security branch, and they would be escorted, so they have no independence or opportunities. Our radio service technicians escort them to do the work, and then review the work. There may be some troubleshooting, etc.

Again, that's something we consistently monitor. There's no independent access to any of our radio sites—to any of our facilities, in fact—and there's stringency in our background security checks.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Thank you.

I'm sorry to cut you off, but I want to get one last policy-related question to the minister.

Minister, your government has introduced Bill C-26, which is a wide-reaching bill in terms of the powers it will give the executive branch. We know the United States has taken similar steps. Bill C-26 requires designated operators to establish and implement security programs and mitigate supply chain and third party risks. That's the legislative fix.

However, in absence of that bill—because, of course, it has not yet passed Parliament—where are the gaps we need to be focusing on? Is this your government's answer to closing those gaps?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

In addition to Bill C-26—and you've given some highlights of it—we will work with industry and regulators to protect our critical infrastructure in a number of priority areas, including telecommunications. As you may recall, part 1 of Bill C-26 seeks to add, expressly, the objective of ensuring the security of our telecommunications sector. Beyond that, we have the protocols and policies that govern procurement, which we do in partnership with PSPC.

We also have the authorities granted to the service under the CSIS Act, which include the threat reduction measures this government introduced in 2019, but with the corresponding transparency and accountability, as granted by both NSIRA and NSICOP. There are reviews coming up for that legislation.

Mr. MacGregor, I hope that is something you and I will be able to work on, along with other parliamentarians.

We are making additional investments right across the national security and public safety apparatus so that Canadians can be assured we will be vigilant 24-7 in protecting our critical infrastructure and institutions, so we can keep them safe and preserve the Canadian interest, both here and abroad.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much. That's all the time you had.

I now give the floor to Mr. Vis for five minutes.

January 30th, 2023 / 4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses appearing today.

Minister, your government has stated—and you stated it again today—that these contracts were not subject to a national security review. The RCMP also publicly stated that the Hytera-Sinclair system in question was “not a security risk” and you reiterated that point today. Then, we hear today that you instructed the RCMP to conduct a review of the procurement practice that led to the contract being awarded. The contract was immediately suspended after this came to light in the media in December.

Why was the contract suspended if there was no risk to national security and all the protocols—from what we've heard today—were followed?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Let me pick up on the last point you made.

I wish to underscore that the protocols and procedures were followed by the RCMP in this case. That should be a source of assurance. As to the conclusions of the RCMP's review, there were no risks with regard to the equipment and services procured in this matter.

That being said—and as I said to Mr. MacGregor earlier—it is important that we remain vigilant, and vigilance demands that we constantly—

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you, Minister.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

—reassess the situation in order to be sure we are protecting our critical infrastructure from potential foreign interference.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you.

I'm going to ask another question.

You and the Prime Minister challenged the independent decision-making of the public service in December with respect to the awarding of this contract with the RCMP. Do you think the public service got it wrong when they gave Sinclair Technologies this contract?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I believe the RCMP followed the protocols and procedures that are in place.

I also want to assure you that, in light of this study.... By the way, the government embraces the work of this committee. We think it's important to shine a light, with transparency, on how we procure. However, following that, I issued directions to my agencies to make sure we are applying the strictest of standards and rigour to these screening protocols. The work of continually reassessing potential threats is ongoing. It does not end.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

We will continue to spare no effort to protect our institutions.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Through you, Mr. Chair, has the RCMP, with your discussions with the minister, acknowledged whether they were informed, or aware, of the U.S. Department of Justice's 21 charges for conspiracy to commit theft of trade secrets against the company in question today, prior to the contract being awarded?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I will pass to Deputy Commissioner Larkin, but it is certainly a well-reported fact. I will pass to the deputy commissioner to indicate exactly when the RCMP became aware of it.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Very briefly, Mr. Larkin. Were you aware of the charges, yes or no?